Ormsby is terrible, get him out and get some first teamers in, the man cant catch a cold

Well we know Russel will add considerable attacking flair, and that seems to have been sadly lacking ATM, so his inclusion seems a given. The problem then is where to put Ratchford, and I suspect TS will replace Myler, even though it breaks up the half back partnership very early in the season. A this stage, we need a run of wins / good games to maintain morale. Only the criminally insane would drop GOB, the team needs direction and a kicker, plus he needs a decent run of games to see if he can cut it. But I think TS will stick with Atkins, that is his track record in the face of poor form, and I suspect the logic is that Atkins lacks confidence and that will not improve if he doesn't play.

In the forwards, Laithwaite out and Riley in. Gone are the past few seasons where we would have rested players and tried new blood. We need a settled team that is familiar playing together, and we need the win.

I'm no Riley knocker but to bring some balance to your statement, you're being a bit simplistic with that, Russell coming back frees up Ratchford which i think is the main issue, a lot of discussion as you'll be aware of is our half back combinations, we finally get to see if the Myler and Ratchford is all it is cracked up to be, even though personally i think it is criminal that GOB will be dropped.
Smith is the coach but sometimes his loyalty to the first team players can be baffling and even though GOB has been head and shoulders better I can't see him dropping Myler yet.
Another point is people are aware of Riley, Russell is something new and people are looking forward to how he will go, he had some pretty decent performances in theWorld Cup and people are just hoping that transfers in to the Warrington first team.

Myler has had a poor start to the season by his high standards. I think that they should stick with the same 6 + 7 as last week and give them time to gel. How will we know if they are the real deal together if we keep changing them. The direction and go forward was way better than the previous weeks and Myler didnt do anything wrong.
Why people think we are in meltdown cos we are not playing well is a joke, i would be be abit worried if we were ripping teams apart already after the change in players we have had, cos believe me saints wont play like this all year and they will crash at some point.
Stick with the half backs for a few more weeks and give them time.

If that's the case then Ratchford has to be moved in the centres, Stef has to play so possibly drop Atkins, seems logical but it won't happen.

But surely in your last sentence Charlie lies the problem.....TS hasn't blooded enough young players often enough ,that is why we are finding players not quite up to the mark & probably feeling out of their depth in superleague ,but a few more games to build confidence & there is no reason why a youth based Wire of the future shouldn't enjoy the same success that Saints & Wigan are at present. A big mistake was sticking with so many old stagers to try & win the League & that has stifled the younger players stepping up to the next level . That could be why several talented youngsters have moved on.

I don't know off the top of my head who these talented youngsters are and where they have gone, but, agree generally with the gist of what you're saying, one last go at winning the big pot with that team.

With the exception of perhaps Briers going a year early, we should have been planning for big changes as they were in the clubs recruitment strategy? Sure we've brought players in Asotosi England and Russell that should get plenty of game time, but, really should we still be wondering about whether the likes of Dwyer and O'Brien particularly can play at the required level as they've been around the first team for long enough surely?

By the end of this season, we should be in little doubt about these two and half a dozen others who are looking to break through into plenty of starting 17's next season

There must have been talent somewhere, they managed to hold their own in the competitions they were involved in.

When young players get involved with club level scholarships & youth teams they do so with the hope of one day playing professionally. If that goal is continually denied them by buying so called better players from overseas the player base of clubs will soon disappear as young hopefuls become disillusioned .

?? Behave yourself

I think you and Nine are right about TS not fully testing the youngsters. That may be due to a blind spot, or it could be that those short term contracts that he was on, firmly focussed his mind on short term gain. Perhaps he thought he would be off to Oz even ? As has been mentioned before, he has done very well with a largely imported set of players, but can he now do an Alex Fergusson and create a new cup winning side from the ashes of the old one ?

FWIW, I think we have not signed any mega stars because of the youngsters. We know our dear owner is keen that the club should be self-sustainable - and that ain't gonna happen if we keep buying in all the time. Add to that the fact that a lot of money and hype has gone into the youth system, hence the coaching team are probably under some pressure to demonstrate it is working. So my guess would be that like it or not we will see all the younger players given match time. And in some cases (e.g. GOB) it will be shape up or ship out.

At the end of the year I suspect perhaps around 5-6 of the ex U20's will either excel or do enough to be retained, we will see a young hooker moving over to us from SL, and Sally will suffer a paroxysm of ecstasy as we sign at least one top NRL player.

TS did test the youngsters though, on here it was called not taking the league fixtures seriously. There were plenty of games where we rested big names to keep them fresh and put youngsters in the team but when fans are buying their season tickets they expect the club to take every fixture seriously not putting unknowns in and then us getting beat by mid ranking sides but "it doesnt matter because you only need to make the top eight"

I get what your saying Sally like at Salford & London when we went overboard with young players & got a bloody nose, upsetting many fans in the bargain.

Sorry, no. When we lost to Salford in 2012 (24-4icon_cool.gif, we only had GOB, Rhys Evans and Dwyer in the team. When we were thrashed by London (18-62), we only had Rhys Williams and Evans in the team. And other than Dwyer, I think you would view both Evans and GOB as emerging talent, rather than novices. The main reason for 'not taking games seriously' was probably the team simply not bothering to turn up. After all, we didn't really need the points, and the competition doesn't really start until Aug / Sept. If you look at games played (all, not just SL) for last year, Rhys Williams played 6, Evans 8, GOB 3, Laithwaite 4, Dwyer 4, Danny Bridge 3 and Glen Riley 6. So we don't have a track record for extensive use of our youngsters.

The other side of the coin is the ageing stars and whether we have hung onto them for too long. Briers was only playing in short bursts last year and managed only 19 games. Yes, he still produced some high quality plays to set up tries, but I hate to think how much real match time he would have played for us this year (assuming no neck injury). Morley was solid if unspectacular, and played only 19. Monas, who I have loved watching, is a shadow of his former self. He did play a good few games last year and his defence is top notch, but I still think this is a year too long for him. Bret could probably have lasted another year, but watching him get smashed every time he collected a kick was painful last year. Carvell could certainly have had another year. He would be my only certainty.

Personally, I think there is a case for saying we should have introduced some of the youngsters earlier, and given them a longer run of games to boot. Of course as fans we wan't it all - cups and a continuous stream of high quality sides every year. So perhaps we are now simply paying the price of 'having our cake' for the last few years.

Well said Charlie ! I do wonder if the somewhat sporadic inclusion of some of the younger players in games has not been all that beneficial either. They must have known that even a superstar performance would not have stopped them being replaced the following week by an old stager .

Russell has the 1 shirt. Play him at FB.

Ratch has the 6 shirt. Play him at SO

Myler has the 7 shirt. Play him at SH


This is what they're trained as all pre season, play them in their squad positions. Simple.

I'd like to see Penny, Evans and Dwyer given a run out this week, they were all superb in pre season, Ormsby hasn't done enough for me to keep his place after the Hull game, Atkins is terrible and so is Myler.
Russell at FB with Ratchford and GOB in the halves.

I don't know what Myler has been doing pre-season but it isn't being reflected in his form, irrespective of who his partner at half-back is. This ludicrous, head-in-the-sand, rigid thinking is really beginning to irk - how long does a player get to hold onto the shirt, irrrespective of personal form, just because that was the shirt he was "given" in pre-season?

I mean those saying ratch has to play . No, he has to play at 6. Because that's his position. If he's not doing the job replace him.

Yes no squad rotation, dont give players a rest and if your shirt says 22 then "take a hike" cos your obviously crap.!!!
How do you know that this is where they have trained all close season??

I agree with you and Chaz, if nothing else this season we need to find out for sure who is going to cut the mustard. The inclusion of a Dwyer, an Evans or a GOB can no longer be seen by some as TS not taking the comp seriously?

We've all heard about our junior prospects and the clubs' drive for sustainability a 'pipeline of talent' if you like? Well in my view there's a problem with a pipeline that gets blocked at the end and if we don't use it properly then we will miss out as talent surfaces elsewhere and kids are possibly reluctant to come in the first place if chances appear limited

Leon Pryce wears 3, but he doesn't play in the centres...

And there I was thinking that Kevin Sinfield plays at loose forward for Leeds because he wears the number 13 shirt.

Silly me......

The squad numbers did give an insight into what Smith originally thought was his strongest team. This weekend they can play sqaud numbers 1-12 (Grix is injured at 13) so I for one would like to see that and the resulting performance.

Just read warrington guardian it says Glenn Riley and Matty Russell both available but more likely that Russell will play for Swinton this weekend

Fine by me. Gives Russell a game to get some match fitness and puts pressure on our full back and half backs to perform to a high level on Sunday. To be honest I would be happy to see England and Evans retain their spots based on last week . Whether that means Riley replaces Laithwaite is another matter. I thought he did well last week.