I suspect even Wigan fans were pleasantly suprised by last season, given the fact that the squad looked much weaker than recent years. Let's not forget they had plenty of shaky spells, they won the cup via a training session in the semi and abject opposition in the final but, like Leeds before them, they won when it counted and fair play to them.

Yes, we'll miss Carvell & Briers (don't think we'll miss Morley and we have a decent replacement for Brett in Ratchford) but that simply means Myler, Atkins, Monas M & J, Higham, Asotasi etc, will have to up their game.

I'll be happy to finish top 4. Will we? i don't know, but then I wouldn't have predicted Wigan doing the double with that squad either, and nor would many people inside or outside of the JJB.

Ratchford is wearing the 6 shirt and Briers isn't. Therefore he's been replaced.

Can I be the fitst to blame Kevin Penney?

I think we will be alright we do need a fair few players to up their games but they will. I do think we will have a few bad results but I think we will have our share of good results too. I can't see us challenging for top spot but top 4 should still be achievable, I am looking forward to watching us again this season.

I'll be astounded if we don't finish in the top 4. Who is going to be above us?

Hopefully Myler will emerge from the shadow of Briers & become a confident play maker & a few weeks alongside Ratchford could see the establishment of one of the best half back combinations in the game for many years to come. I also think the coaching staff though will have to abandon the idea that we still have a pin point accurate field kicker & promote a more open running game that doesn't rely on a Briers chip to the corner. This could be the start of even more exciting things to come from the Mighty Wire.

I don't want to take it for granted as I remember when 4th seemed beyond our wildest dreams which is not as long ago as it feels these days. I remain confident that Wigan, Huddersfield, Leeds and us should still be the top 4 I expect Saints, Hull & Catalans + either KR, Bradford or Salford to fill the 8 depending on how Salford settle as a team. Widnes should avoid relegation which is good as the derbies are fixtures I look forward to, although I prefer it when we win them (heavily).

Don't actually care where we finish (inside top

even if this means a poor start to the first half of the season with the team bedding into the change of players and incorporation of a few youngsters, as long as we hit the season half on a roll to the GF.

who have you signed for next season?

Roy Asotasi, Anthony England, Matty Russell, Kevin Penny.

hudds leeds sts wigan cats and maybe hull will probably have an eye on the top 4..so dont think its a gimme that we`ll be in the top 4

leaves you a bit light in the prop department then.

We will have Roy Asotasi, Hilly, Woody, Glen Riley, Anthony England & Ben H all available.

And Glen Riley is a monster.

He certainly is, and I like what little I've seen of him, but he needs to use that size effectively.

We've had plenty of physically impressive forwards with the stature of a brick outhouse, but who would struggle to punch a hole in their early morning porridge. On the other hand, we've had excellent service from forwards like Danny Nutley, Mark Hilton, Bob Jackson & Benny W who might not have been the biggest units but ran through brick walls for the cause.

While we've obviously lost some amazing players, people seem to have forgotten how many games we played without Briers (and Myler) last season, and we finished 2nd. I'm going to see how these new guys get on first, like Russell, before I start predicting doom and gloom...

Good point about Riley. IMHO, at the moment I would put him in the 'promising' bracket. He is huge, but as you rightly point out, that does not necessarily equate with success. Some smaller forwards will 'fight' for yardage in the tackle, Hill uses the strength of his legs to power on. And I think that is what is missing from Riley - he doesn't use his legs enough. I suspect he has had success in lower grade rugby by simply using his bulk, so has not developed in the same way as Hill. But surely that can be rectified ? Either way, I think we are going to need all the bulk we can get next year, because packs seem to be getting bigger.

We've heard over and over about how the next new young forward coming from the Academy is going to make it big. Steve Pickersgill was the big hope a few years back. Cooper was going to be a monster - in fairness he did hold his own and has got an NRL move but maybe not quite what he'd been hyped up to be. Going back further Mike Callan had a big rep in the Academy and Warren Stevens when he came in to the first team aged 17 was seen as a Morley-esque junior.

I think you have to reserve judgement to see how these players go over 20 or so games in the first team. Whilst forwards you would expect will improve as they get older, with some players you can see it with some you can't. I could never see it with Pickersgill and to be honest never really saw it with Cooper either but I gave him the benefit of the doubt because everybody thought he was so good.

With Paul Wood you could just see it, even though he was pretty skinny for a prop when he emerged in 2000-01, he was never bullied by any bigger players, the team was struggling at the time and you could just tell he had it.

Same when Chris Hill stepped up from Leigh, I was a sceptic when he came with a big reputation from the Championship because the last time we signed "best prop in the National League" was Matt Sturm. But you could tell from the start Hill could handle himself.

Time will tell with Glenn Riley but I think there are big question marks over our pack next year and a lot depends on Asotasi, if that signing doesn't come off then we are one injury (to Wood or Hill) away from a prop crisis.

Looks like we're starting the season with a prop crisis then.

I'll go for Anthony England to be in the running for Super League Rookie of the Year though. Very big unit and the right age for a prop forward.

Another physically impressive, promising young prop of yesteryear, who never quite fulfilled the potential his size suggested he ought was Steve Molloy. Even as a youngster he was a big lad, tall for a prop, wide-shouldered and as he bulked up he had all the attributes.

Except, perhaps most crucially, desire. Around the same time Gary Chambers & Mark Hilton came along and both lacked the' imposing frame of Molloy, but made up for it with sheer determination, guts and desire. Hilton in particular suffered some dreadful injuries due to his direct style of play, but just kept coming back.

I don't remember Hilton being small, he was quite a big bloke wasn't he, must have been about 6ft 4 or so?

Wasn't his nickname "The Beast" or was that a reference to a specific part of his body rather than his overall size?

Pickersgill's lack of lateral movement, allied to his lack of pace, meant he was never going to cut-it at the top level. That is before you address his 'professionalism'

I'm not sure what more Cooper could do. Consistent member of the 17; consistent performances. Granted, he is no Sam Burgess, but I don't recall anybody labelling him such.

Mike Callan looked destined to be a cracker, but a badly broken leg put paid to that. I was surprised he managed to play on, even at lower level.

I don't recall Warren Stevens ever being seen as a great. That said, we really didn't do him any favours. The amount of game time we made him play was a disregard for our duty of care.

As for Riley, again, his lateral movement is a bit of a concern, but where he differs from Pickersgill is his pace. He is quite fleet of foot. I have quite high hopes for him.

You're right about the nickname and assuming it was meant for his overall stature (!), actually he wasn't so big.
I bought the a ball from the last game at Wilderspool (V Fev) which was auctioned as part of his testimonial and then received it from Mark on the pitch at Wilderspool. I remember him being about 6 foot and well made but not in the Morley sort of way.

His fellow prop - Nick Fozzard - was actually much bigger.

At one stage both Fozz and Mark had heavy strapping on their forearms - as did Woody !

Stevens got a game in 96, after beast did his shoulder the first time and chambo broke his arm away at sheffield.

Warren was a big puppy fat carrying academy prop, probably about 17 at the time with a blonde bowl cut and got thrown in as we had no one else, remember him getting a back hand off dean sampson on Sky that year that knocked him out?

Same thing happened in 97, we had another prop crisis, and brains got drafted back in and despite his youth and inexperience just got left in the first team until we released him.

Yeah my memory might be exaggerating Stevens rep at that time to be honest. I think you are right he was just shoved in because we had nobody. We had a young Jon Duffy at the time too who was coming in to the team at a similar age.

I think back then because we had brought Harris and Sculthorpe through there were a lot of high hopes for other young players coming through: Penny, Hilton and Roper in particular. Actually Roper looked a decent prospect for about 3 seasons and was in the GB train on squad in 1999, and then he just fell to pieces the following year (when Langer came).

At the time we had Warren Stevens in the first team didn't we have Danny Sculthorpe in the Academy too? He might have been worth persevering with.