Slightly rhetorical question but, has the current pack performed better than a pack that could've had Cooper, Philbin, G.King, Livett & Currie.

Is Bullock ripping up the trees that King wasn't and is Livett a poor mans Olli holmes?

Has Roberts, Austin, Sandow, Widdop, Williams done better than Gaz O'B would've done alongside either one if them?

It's all hindsight this, I do get that. But i don't think Mr C Sandow gave two flying eroos about Warrington, whereas, maybe, because he came through the system, G O'b would, stood next to lads he's grown up with

Well I would rather have Cooper here next season, who actually understands the P&B, than some big name Aussie on an executive salary who is only here to top up his pension and will be homesick the moment there's a spot of rain.

#KissKamOut then?

Re youth and catchment.

If you were a top young prospect from Burtonwood, Penketh, Leigh or wherever and had opportunities at Saints, Wigan and Warrington presented to you - would you choose Warrington?

Back on the point of the Grand Final, why do Wire fans call Saints the "bottlers"?

You could argue that we have "bottled it" in big games almost as much or even more than Saints have.

It's going to get even harder for us to attract the best local talent now. Leeds have appointed Peter farrell as their first nw based talent scout. We have definitely taken some big steps forward with the academy but we need to keep going. Our academy competing with the big 3s academy is absolutely key to competing with them at first team level their academies mean they have much deeper squads than every other team.

In 27 years ONLY 4 teams have won super league .

As of 2022 -

St Helens (10),
Leeds Rhinos (icon_cool.gif,
Wigan Warriors (5),
Bradford Bulls (4).

I'd obviously like that stat to be five with us joining the list BUT is it in itself such a poor ratio?

It's comparable with the Premier League with ONLY seven winners in a similar time frame with many more teams going after top spot and that includes one off's Blackburn and Leicester.

I think our problem isn't that we have so few winners It’s more the quality of the product on the pitch across the board is the issue.

Our fan fan base is stagnant media interest is hit and miss at best and the sport is reliant the same punters to support a number of events.

I didn't attend yesterday first I've missed for a dozen years but would a Salford Huddersfield final garnered any more interest? I’m not so sure

I quite like the idea of this Band of Brothers routine and yes having a strong academy with a good hit rate of producing SL standard players from within with P&B coursing through their veins is worth striving for.

However. using hindsight and revisit our 2012 squad and tell me about all those players that couldn't give a monkeys.

That's the balance of squad I’d like to see here now and I didn't think any less or more of a player based on where they were from.

Effort and giving all for the cause and your team mates comes from within surely

In that same period, 12 different teams have won the NRL and that might become 13 next week.

Six different teams have lost the last six Grand Finals though. It definitely isn't the "same old teams in it" every year, it's just the same old teams winning it. The likes of Warrington with our above average budget and Hull with their above average support base are the clubs who should be changing that, but it isn't Saints', Leeds', or Wigan's responsibility to make it easier for us.

Dwindling crowds are down to a number of reasons, but the most successful clubs have the biggest fan bases. Leeds probably have the biggest fan base in Super League. Two "new" teams in the Grand Final, who don't have as big a support as Leeds or Saints, would be likely to attract a smaller crowd, not a bigger one.

Comparing to the NRL is pointless too. It's a far bigger game there than here. Even they don't get anywhere near the crowds of the AFL though. Over 100,000 at the MCG yesterday, and 90,000+ were there for a quarter final with only one Melbourne team in it two weeks ago.

I wasn't comparing crowds with the NRL. I was comparing the number of winners. I think there has only been one title retained in the NRL era. What makes it a much more open competition than Super League?

The teams have far greater revenue and potential player pool than ours do. All of them.

Yes this thing about having come through our Academy meaning you play with more pride in the shirt than others is just a myth.

I'd be interested to hear everyone's examples of Wire players from the last 30 years who had the most pride in the shirt and wonder what share of them came through our Academy.

Regularly developing home grown players who are good enough is obviously something to aspire to do. Home grown players having more pride in the jersey or whatever is fantasy nonsense though. They're paid professionals.

Maybe it's not the shirt, it's the people in the shirt.

Leeds of Sinfield, Burrow, JJB ilk
Wigan of Tomkins x2, Farrell, Charnley ilk
Saints of Cunningham, Wellens, Graham ilk

All I know is that most teams who have won it, have done so with a core of players associated with that club.

What is a myth is that, in the 21st Century, you can buy Super League. Hull, Salford (Koukash) and us are prime examples of that

Despite what people say, it IS the same old teams in the final. Yes with some new opposition but it's either Leeds, Saints or Wigan in the final....which isn't their fault they are just the best clubs. But if i see them in a final for me me, it's a forgone conclusion which i've never been wrong on so far So i've lost interest in the final completely. I haven't watched the last 2 finals.

The final involving Catalans didn't pique your interest then?

As a neutral, I find any game away from Catalans home ground a very difficult watch as the whole atmosphere of the game is so low-key.

That Grand Final just never felt like an occasion due to the low crowd and lack of 'buzz' in the ground.

Personally, it's one of the reasons why, and I know all the arguments for having French clubs involved in our league, I just don't feel comfortable with them in our competition.

You're bang on Sally
How many years have Warrington poached scholarship players from rival clubs with the incentive of more cash?
When wolves signed Morgan Smith from Leeds Rhinos he was apparently on £30k a season and he was only 16
Wolves also signed promising juniors too in Brooke Broughton and Micky Learmonth from Leeds too
None of these are in SL now
I'm pretty sure that these 3 players signed for Warrington and for one reason only

Honestly no as i knew Saints would win, it's getting boring for me to be honest. If we got there i'll obviously watch but i've just lost interest in general. I don't watch every Sky game anymore and sometimes just find myself skipping through parts of the games i do watch. I've been obsessed with Rugby League for 17 years now ( and i mean obsessed) since i went to my first game at the start of the 2005 season. But i just don't get the same buzz from it anymore, and i don't think the game is as exciting as it used to be.
But i am excited for next year and i do have a buzz about it. I know just because on paper our squad looks brilliant in most parts, doesn't mean it will be the same on the pitch but i genuinely think next year will be a completely different season for us

The best days of rugby league for me were actually the days when Wigan won everything.

Obviously I wanted somebody to knock the Pies off their perch, but that was still a fantastic era of rugby league with some great players and great memories and some wonderful old grounds which are no longer there, as well as some great international tours.

And also like everybody else on here I'm nostalgic for a time when I was younger and also life seemed a little simpler and the world more hopeful than today.

Absolutely

Today's nostalgia ain't a patch on what it used to be.