Players always want to get on the field, their case is strengthened if they have previous of winning big games, or any games.

In the Challenge Cup final Patton kicked out on the full and in the Grand Final knocked on soon after coming on.

You can see why Price might be sceptical of his claim that he would win the Grand Final...

I am never sure what to make of these alleged Patton stories. Wasn't last years, that he gave TS some 'home truths' in the dressing room. If you're going to be like this, you have to back it up with something on the field.

The stories are probably Chinese whispers anyway.

I think Patton lost a fair few brownie points with [ithat[/i tackle at Hull. Until then he was on the frnges but after that Price seemed to lose faith, and I certainly don't blame him for that having witnessed three years of stagnation from Dec and excuses from Dec's admirers.

I'm afraid he is either :

a hooker who can't tackle, distribute effectively and hasn't the acceleration to exploit a quick play-the-ball

or a half back with pedestrian pace, little game management skills, average kicking game and no timing

Take your pick, or trade him in, but lets admit if he hasn't shown it by now at this level, he's unlikely ever to.

If Patton was at Wigan, he just might gave won us the World cup but now.
The World is full of ifs....but nobody ever won anything in their comfort zone. You need risk.

All the world's best players are the ones who took risks....and made countless errors...what makes it some shameful on the treatment of Patton us that we can actually recall those risky errors or even daft errors.

He ought to be in a position that he makes so many errors we lose count...but eventually all those errors begin to fizzle out and those risks become routine.
Players around instinctively know with a wink and a nod what's on.

God knows how many errors Lee Briers made but SC loves the sun that shines out of his backend.
He was given a shot...2 shots even by TS to get himself right.
By God he did.

Patton deserves a shot just for being left out being the lazy flump.
Who with hindsight wouldn't have dropped Roberts for Patton had we known what he was going to give us?

No Chinese whispers from Patton pleading to get on the field to Price....no Chinese whispers about Price asking Briers. It happened but Price couldn't get out of 'his' comfort zone.
We never looked like we would score vs Wigan. Price should have made that call.

Whats the wifi like in the Lower Angel, Duckie? Pull yourself together, Sir. I'm all for calculated risk (just the other night I had a jammie dodger that was a week past it's sell-by) but at some point it becomes sheer-blooded mindedness.

But your a winner because you took a chance on that jammie dodger. It was delicious and you got a result...but you risked it.
Far better to risk 7 days on a sell by date than have a rich tea to find if you leave the rich tea in the brew too long it will eventually fall on the cup...just like Roberts...he was nothing more than a boring rich tea biscuit.

Nothing wrong with rich teas, I'm unhappy with that comparison. Rich teas are not a precursor to a limp attack. You should get better at dunking before you go slagging biscuits off.

I think he's more like a custard cream anyway.

RD, he's had more games than Gaz O'Brien and in my opinion is no better than him. For me he is not the answer at halfback.

Or like me, just popped into a particular shop for a packet of Uncle Joe's.

Suck em and see.

The sun shines out of Briers booty because he is an all time Warrington great.

But the comparison is revealing. Briers was at a similar stage as Patton is now in terms of number of games played, in the 1999 season. Back then Briers was prone to a lot of errors, but he was also showing the ability to turn matches. He was kicking out on the full, missing tackles, getting distracted in arguments with the ref, but he was also running to the line, doing a show and go and breaking through, picking off interceptions, setting up tries with cut out balls or kicks to the corner, and his long kicking game whilst sometimes going out on the full was also bringing 40/20s and he never kicked straight down someone's throat.

So you could take the rough with the smooth and in the end the smooth dominated and he became the best in SL.

Patton...has not shown those gamebreaking traits that Briers had. He's varied between being OK, promising quite good, anonymous, and anonymous with errors. It's not just about taking risks either, its about having the flair and athleticism to be a gamebreaker, which Briers had.

Also it's not like Briers had it easy at Warrington either, he came in to a much poorer team and more disorganised club than Patton did, he had to face us signing Steve Blakeley to compete for his spot, then being pushed to fullback by two different coaches. He could have disappeared and had loads of excuses on here "he was ruined by DVDV/Anderson" but real talent fights its way through. I don't see Patton doing that, I see him leaving in a couple of seasons with his fans on here giving various excuses that he would have been a great if it wasn't for being ruined by TS and Price, and this will seemingly be irreparable ruin that also means he's average at his future clubs!

Briers wasn't 2nd string to anyone. He was at the forefront of the good the bad and the ugly.
Patton hasn't had that break.

Patton like GOB may eventually have to move on to get a prolonged shot....just like Briers had too. I suppose Bobby Goulding was the best signing we never made.

If Patton moves on like GOB did he will end up playing for the also rans just like GOB does.

Then if he turns into this world beater we can sign him back, assuming we beat off competiton from Saints, Leeds and half the NRL.

He's never going to be a world beater, so we don't need to worry about this.

As a middle aged (!) bloke my default position is that I want to see young people given every opportunity to succeed. I accept that means I am rather tardy in wanting them moved on. With regard to Dec and the Briers comparison I agree with RD in so far as Briers had no competition at the outset (although plenty later on) so could try things without his place being at risk.
But I still think K Penny was a lost opportunity.. (whatever SC thinks!)

Lee briefs had a great finish to his career but to make out he was or is a wire legend is stretching it. During his time with us there were many times there were calls to get rid that he was good in done games and went missing in others... Sounds similar to Patton.

Not saying that he will turn out like Briers but he has not been given the chance to stake his claim at half back he has always been cover if Roberts Sandow brown were injured he may get a game. Unless we can get in a high blprofile half I don't think the alternatives are a n y better or any worse..

Let me be clear, Theo Fages is vastly superior to [iany[/i of our current half-backs, though I don't include Austin in that as I've barely seen him.

Yes, Fages' defence is a bit suspect, but not many half-backs posess even decent tackling abikity. Ironically, that is one aspect of both Tyrone Roberts & Brown's game that is excellent.

But that's why god gave us the likes of Cullen, Bob Jackson and Westwood. Let the guys who can defend defend, and the boys who can play play. And there is no doubt Fages can play.

If there is even a glimmer, we should be banging on the door.

This thread was originally about Kevin Brown, who was released from Wigan after playing a similar number of games (73) as Patton has now (6icon_cool.gif. Remember the hype about Brown when he started - Eddie and Stevo loved him, he was touted as a future GB star. I'm sure Brown fans could make the same excuses that get used for some of our players - released too early, ruined by Millward and Noble, messed around by playing 6, centre and bench, couldn't settle...

In the end Brown showed that if you are a good player you will still have a good career after being released by your first club, and during Huddersfield's purple patch and for a while at Widnes (where he got in to the Dream Team in 2014) he was one of the better SL players. Do Wigan now look back at Brown as 'one that got away' who came back to haunt them? Probably not. Wiganers views would probably be, Brown was a good talent with a professional attitude but Wigan aim higher (and have the SL rings to justify it).

Then you look at some of the other lads who came through the Wigan Academy and in to the first team at a similar time to Brown, and how many first team games they played before Wigan moved them on: Liam Colbon (57), Luke Robinson (47), Ricky Bibey (42), Bryn Hargreaves (33), David Allen (25), Bob Beswick (22), Chris Melling (13). Some of them went on to have decent careers with other clubs but Wigan weren't going to persevere with them year after year in the hope that they would suddenly discover genius. They had seen enough and moved them on, because Wigan either look to the next youngster coming through or have no fears bringing in signings from outside to replace them.

This idea that at clubs like Wigan persevere with players even if they don't show much potential at the start, and steadily develop them in to greats, is a myth, they are far more ruthless towards average players than us.

Compare those Wigan players with some who came through at Warrington and how many games they played: Chris Riley (182), Mark Gleeson (154), Paul Noone (129), Rhys Evans (105), Kevin Penny (93), Ian Sibbitt (93), George King (82), Warren Stevens (69), Matty Blyth (63), Gareth O'Brien (62), Gary Hulse (51).

How many of those, would have played more first team games at Wigan? or Saints/Leeds? Honestly? Some of those would have played far fewer before being cut. Wigan cut Matty Russell after 2 games, we gave him 90.

Fages brings energy as a sub but when have you seen him run a match? Saints didn’t even have him on the bench for the semi and you would want us to be chasing him,presumably as a staring half back?

Good posf SC, and absolutely correct.

Someone once told me "Wigan don't let good players go". This was around the time we signed Martin McDermott, and I thought that proved otherwise, but we all remember how that went.

Some might say that with Bateman & Sutton leaving shows this is no longer true, but Wigan wlll have first refusal.

SC is right and as an example the honeymoon is over for George Williams, marquee or not. His kicking game was a major factor in the GF win, but a couple of occasional cameos won't be enough for them, and it shouldn't be for us.

Fages absence in the semi was generally accepted to be a reflection of his defensive abilities in what expected to be a tough forward orientated battle. Amongst Saints fans, it was also considered a huge blunder and a key factor in their defeat. I certainly breathed a sigh of relief.

But to answer your question, yes I would.

SC hints at something there that is being totally ignored by the Patton lovers....and that is natural ability. Im sure Robbie Savage's mum would concede that if Robbie had been given the worlds best football coaching, made captain of Real Madrid and an extended run in that team that he still wouldnt have got close to the career Ronaldo has/had. Forget all the nonsense about Briers' route to club legend....even in the early days his talent was there for all to see, Patton is nowhere near that level and never will be.

If you're happy with Patton at 7 then don't moan when we're potless again at the end of next season. Im hoping Price is ruthless enough to get us over the line. Forget this England Knights cobblers as well...I'm half expecting a late call up and i spent 20 of my 40+ plus years on full fat Marlboros.

Bateman and Sutton leaving Wigan is more like Cooper leaving us for St George-Illawarra, they are the ones making the decision to leave rather than the club cutting them.

I agree with you on Fages, I would take him, although I'd prefer Drinkwater.

Now he was definitely pants!

Dezzie gets it.