I've not contributed to these pages for a long while, but witnessing the terrible start to the season as persuaded me to rid myself of a few of my thoughts and opinions.

Firstly, and most importantly, how has it come to this??.... Played 6 Lost 6, and quite deservedly with our performances, bottom of the league.

What is blindingly obvious is that we are simply a mediocre team - we lack leaders, we lack quality, we lack anything resembling any sort of shape or plan on the pitch.

Our backline is absolutely shocking - Ratchford is the only one who looks upto the standard needed. The likes of Russell and Evans are not good enough, Gidley and Brown are looking horribly aged...Gidley especially looks like a man whose body cant do what his head his instructing it....youngsters like Patton, Johnson and King are like lambs to the slaughters having to start a career playing with such substandard senior players.

The forwards (apart from Hill), while trying hard enough , lack any sort of fear factor... Sims is a waste of time. His impact, whether from the start or off the bench, is zero....Cooper has been massively disappointing, his presumed improvement from his spell in Oz has been non existent and Crosby is just a chugger who lacks quality, Westwood, like Gidley and Brown earlier, just looks past it... Clark and Westerman, while showing effort and glimpses of half decent form, don't appear to have the ability to lead or desire to stand up when things begin to go wrong.

This rant could probably go on and on, but ultimately the buck as to stop with the people who have assembled and coach this squad.... Smith and Agar don't appear to be able to send out a side that can compete. That is simply not good enough... Personally, I think Agar has to go first and Smith given the chance to find a coach who can actually do the job of preparing a side both mentally and physically, because what is becoming obvious is that the team looks beaten before they even kick off.

Hopefully, things can turn around soon... Unfortunately, I cant see where. Whatever Smith says in his interviews, this isn't just a confidence thing, this is a mediocre side, with a mediocre coach in Agar, simply finding its level.

Wonder if Clark is regretting signing his new contract.I would be as it might take 4 yrs to rebuild this team the mess it's in.

We've talked of players playing to get rid of Smith...maybe we've overlooked the real elephant in the room....maybe they're playing to get rid of Agar alone. It's no coincidence that since he started running the 1st team, the flair and confident, exciting play has vapourised.

I think the only players with genuine quality are Westerman Clark Hill Livett (early signs) and Ratchford, possibly Toby King at a push.

The rest, sadly look well short on confidence and more importantly, ability. Sad sad sad

Can we have have Ben Currie at Hull then please

The biggest problem, apart from being 0-6 and bottom of the league is that the performances are getting WORSE.

I couldn't take one single positive from the saints game.

Next 2 game are Hull and Leeds. Hard to see anything but 0-8.. I'm not even sure where we go from here. The next man in had a massive job on his hands.

I think maybe the way to go, as previously mentioned, is to dump Agar (useless) and replace him with a first team coach that will get them playing again. Let's face it Smith is more the figure head, it's Agar who has day to day control of team affairs. Why we are surprised he's been found out shouldn't have been a mystery. Get Willie Poaching in, throw money at it!!!

Im going to remain positive. Just put £20 on us at 33/1 to win the grand final. See you at old trafford

I hope you did that online, I couldn't have beared the laughs if I'd done it in person.

A lot of Wire fans complaining about the lack of quality in the squad. Now the reality check - Leeds fans are saying this as well, so are Saints and Huddersfield. So which club has got a team brimming with talent? Don't say Cas - they are playing to their max due to great coaching and clearly a fantastic team spirit, but they are not a team full of world class players.

Simple fact is that the standard of SL is poor right now. Most of us are in the same boat without a paddle.

Exactly hugo.

Remember about ten years or so ago, there was always huge debate about how the number of overseas players in SL was destroying the game. It was always on the forums, on the Super League show, the papers. RL personalities were always being asked their opinions on it, there were the Brian Noble types saying how overseas players raised the standard and helped improve ours, and there were the Gary Schofields saying kick out the overseas players and there will be more chance for young English talent to come through.

In reality the RFL didn't have to do a clamp down on overseas players, the falling value of the pound versus the dollar and the increase in TV revenue in the NRL brought its own limit. And it has opened up more opportunities for young home grown players to play in SL. A decade or so ago the likes of Rhys Evans or Matty Russell would not have had the opportunities they have today, they would have been lost down to the lower divisions like Dave Alstead and Steve Maden were.

So you could say this is a good thing for the English game that we have had more opportunities for these players, and its not just at our club but at most clubs in SL. Clubs don't have the option of bringing over players like Jamie Lyon, Matt King, Steve Renouf like in the past.

But it has meant a general levelling down of talent across the board which has led to a decline in the quality of rugby, albeit it has meant a more equal competition. Cas were down and out a few years back and Hull were in the doldrums, whilst Warrington and Leeds were running hot winning trophies. All change now.

It would be nice if bt came in with a rival bid and raised the money and cap.

There's no financial. Motivation for many remain in rugby other than on an amature basis and get a normal job. And there's no real competition for TVs rights to sky so we do basically have to take what they offer.

I'm happy with the talent we have at Wigan, just unhappy that a dozen of them are stuck in the treatment room...

This might sound crazy but I am happy with the quality in our squad. I was before the season started and I am now.
I know most on here would have liked to have signed greg inglis and maybe Semi Radrada but that was never going to happen.
On paper we have a better squad than most of the other teams in the league.
Like Sally says the overall quality has dropped which means the gap between the "have's" and "have nots" is not as great so the things that separates teams on the ladder is how the team is coached, mentally prepared and motivated. Can anybody say that this squad is vastly inferior to Cas, Catalan, Salford, Leigh and Saints.
We have become a lazy team. Every tackle we make we are leaving hands in on the ball to try and blag a knock on because we are too lazy to do it the honest way by hitting hard and forcing a knock on. We are trying to get cheap penalties to piggy back us up field when we should be just running harder and faster and supporting the runner. We are questioning the ref if a penalty is given instead of getting back and hitting the opposition to get the ball back. Our whole system now depends on quick play the balls and penalties but other teams and the referees have figured us out and this has not just happened overnight.
With the right coaching, mental prep and motivation this team can compete for silverware but the change has to happen really quick.

Brilliantly put. This crisis is down to very, very poor coaching

The players perhaps have recognised this and are playing accordingly to allow the board to make a change?

Does Agar have a more hands in approach with the coaching now? I don't rate him to be honest & wonder how he keeps getting work.

Is this true? I am not a Warrington fan nor do I avidly read your forum so the news that Agar is in charge of the first team is, quite literally, gobsmacking for me.

Agar V Smith - an ok assistant who has twice failed to make the jump to head coach V one of the most successful and knowledgeable head coaches we have seen in SL. And you now have the assistant in charge? I don't get it!

This probably sounds like an anti-Agar rant so for balance I know a guy who coached with him; he holds Agar in the highest regard; apparently he has lots of innovative ideas and can see raw talent long before many other coaches; I respect that guy's opinion because I am not a coach at any level; but please tell me I have read this thread wrong or that I am drunk and you really don't have him in charge of your first team coaching?

Anyhow, whichever way it is, I am sure you will come through your current predicament and, at the very least, "do a Leeds" and easily navigate the Middle Eights, should you find yourselves there although I suspect a Warrington revival will occur sooner than that!

I don't believe our predicament is comparable to Leeds last season whatsoever they lost some huge players for them we have added to ours in the right or wrong positions is debatable and it's been a while now since mostly briers monas etc left so their departures cannot be blamed !

We're just not up for it for whatever reason is speculation but until whatever is causing this is solved it will be a long hard slug to get thru the season!!

Yep and all this despair coming on the back of CC and GF defeats, and a long wait of a cold dark rugbyless off season,

It wasn't meant to be like this

Is this critic of Agar fare?
When we were flying high last season..his name was hardly mentioned. Yet now, like when he first arrived, he is barraged. ?

Personally I think he is a yes man so I lay blame of dips and errors squarely at the feet of TS.

I would agree as he is basically feeding down and following tony smiths instruction, if this is the set up I would question who ever thought it would be a good idea to take a lot of smiths responsibilities away from him and passed them over to agar and if smith was actually ok with the arrangement sees were paying smith quite a bit of money to do less work nowadays ??

and its a fair point that when we lay well smith its the credit but when we don't perform agar is to blame I would say they are both as culpable as each other for both our good play and also when we play poorly however it would also be part of mr smiths job that when we are not performing to adapt and identify the problems and weaknesses of the team and look to strengthen their position through new players or more intensive training of the players in that position ??? clearly these have not been resolved tho

It would seem we're the only club in super league which has such a coaching structure as it is, or at the least, how we think the structure is..
Without being inside the structure, we can only speculate. If Agar was to go, it would be down to a perceived closeness to Tony Smith and his previous track record which I'm sure he would be disappointed with, fairly or unfairly.

Agar has been praised by some of the players for the work he does with them, so certainly not so cut and dry as to what is going on behind closed doors.

Toby King is a championship player at best. Unfortunately for us fans he is on smiths 'favourites' list and will always play if fit. Since our last major trophy in 2012 ask yourselves if any player no longer with us has been replaced with someone of equal/better ability. (bar myler for sandow, but that hardly turned out well!)

Having read this post I believe that you actually are Moe Syslak and I think you are a bit quick to have the opinion that Toby King belongs in the Championship "at best" I think he's starting out and is potentially a decent centre. We aren't exactly blessed in this position so probably deserves a chance before being written off...

"Unfortunately for us fans..." sorry I can't agree with your sentiment here and that's putting it politely just what has the young lad done wrong?