Dissatisfied with Salford game?

Appreciate that a win is a win.
But have come away from the game, with a sense of
Was it really worth the admittance money?

To me it had the atmosphere a pre-season Friendly.

Seems to me Tony Smith ( & other coaches ? ) are now of opinion following Leeds’ example last year that the league doesn’t matter – provided you finish near the top of the 8.
More important for your Stars to be fit, not burnt out, & in form at the end of the season.
The real season has been reduced to 4 games.

Salford’s no4 Moon looked good, but would he have looked good against Westwood / Bridge is an example in point.

Personally think the RL has a big problem.
No relegation, now no-one really interested in top spot.

Makes for poor Spectator value – would not want is sit through another reserve grade game at 1st team prices.
I will save my money for the final series – or maybe not as it is on SKY.

I am of the same opinion, i have followed Warrington for over 20 years now, with the majority of them with Season Tickets. This season, partly due to saving for a wedding i havent got a season ticket, i am following the results but i can say i am not interested in the league after last seasons anti climax, if we win great, if we don't, i'm not too fussed as long as we are in the play offs.

As you say its just a case of who is in form and injury free at the end of the season.

The end of last season killed a lot of my enjoyment of Rugby League. I think it was partly due to us never being good enough, more in hope than anything else. Yes Wigan fans, "the year of the wolfs" we'd hear every year by oppoisition fans and we'd flatter to deceive then last year being the best team and coming nowhere left a deflated feeling and one that has meant i am not so inclined to hand my money over for in essence 27 rounds of "friendlies".

I don't buy this "not interested in top spot therefore games are boring" argument. I thought RL fans were meant to love their sport and be proud it's a superior game? I quite enjoyed Sunday's match. It had a good ebb and flow to it with both sides completing their sets and as we know Salford are a much more entertaining side this season. We could have done with a more cutting edge at times and shouldn't have let them back in when 24-10 up but at the end of the day we got the win whilst resting several players and a few youngsters got valuable first team experience.

As for atmosphere - I know what you mean, it did seem very quiet at times. But the whole atmosphere argument is a bit silly I think. Atmosphere has always varied throughout seasons and in every sport too. It doesn't flags, songs, drums or any other forced gimmicks. Some games will have it, some won't. Shouldn't stop you enjoying the game though - after all watching a match of RL is what it's all about.

On the no-relegation / top spot meaningless argument being offered as reasons for people not to go. What about Premiership football? Not long into the season you know who's in with a chance of winning it and who's likely to be scrapping at the bottom. What's the point for the rest of them? Yet footy fans still turn out in their tens of thousands for meaningless matches, often having travelled the length of the country to do so and often in midweek.

Sadly it's typical of RL fans to simply find fault with everything rather than enjoying what they have.

Last season was one the most enjoyable for me for many a year. Last year we were the best side over the 27 rounds by some distance and the fact we missed out by 2 points in the semi doesn't make me feel anything other than proud of the clubs efforts.
If TS thinks that to mix the squad up from round to round is the right way then that's fine with me, we're blooding fine young players and that will only do us good in the long run.
Long season, keep the faith.

I'm willing to give anybody odds of 6/4 on the winner of Super League coming from outside of the top three.

So you get five teams to my three and better then even odds. Any takers?

I had the same opinion as the OP on Sunday after the game, but re-reflected later on because what we fans have to understand this year in particular is that TS needs to know if the 'kids' who have been doing well in the 20s i.e. Currie, Williams, Dwyer, O'Brien, McCarthy etc, are going to cut the mustard at SL level. Not just SL, but top 4 standard. At the end of this year and next, we have alot of players approaching the end of their careers and we cannot simply assume that these young guys will be able to step up, or at least not immediately anyway. Can O'Brien replace Briers, or do we need to look at buying in for example? The only way to know that is to start blooding them now against sides in the lower half of the league. It was more of a gamble this time due to the amount of experience left out of the side, but in a way it makes it all the more impressive given that Salford are a much better outfit this year and pushed Leeds all the way last week. Remember Salford with a weaker side beat Warrington last year.

I don't think the league is de-valued at all. Wasnt last year the only year when a club from outside the top 2 won the GF? We are certainly wiser this year, and probably realise we dont have to go hell for leather against every side in the comp.
We were spoilt last year is my view, though dissapointed with the end result of the year.

Any Wire speccie who's unhappy, try reading the Widnes forum.

Very good post. Bradford won the GF from 3rd in 2005, but that doesn't alter your point.

There are some right tarts on here though.

Maybe we will find out whether fans really want to see a team of 'home grown youngsters' taking the field for Warrington.

On the forums you always hear people going on about how great it is for the future that we have all these players from our academy blah blah but when they actually play people don't feel they are getting their admissions money.

Do you really want every game to be like a pre season friendly with a load of local kids wearing the jersey or would you rather watch the likes of Trent Waterhouse?

I suspect that whatever they might say to be pc on here about supporting youngsters, the true answer is they aren't interested in home grown players what they want to see is big guns who have been there and done it in the NRL.

I also think that some fans have been "spolit" by the brand of rugby we have played in the last couple of season. Inconsistent performances, handling errors, team selections will be forgotten come October if the big prize end up at the HJ and we have a squad of replacements for some of our retiring players.

I can see the argument that if you're an RL fan then you love the sport and close game are what you're after. But if Sunday was the cup semi would we have put the same side out, no we wouldn't. So it's pretty much the case that as the weekly rounds aren't as important as the playoffs, or the latter stages of the cup then it's ok to treat them as a chance to experiment rather than win at all costs.

To be fair, the Cullenesque approach of always playing your best 17, and in most cases playing them bandaged & injected to the eyeballs simply hasn't worked. If the approach of using the weekly round as something similar to the seeding process as in snooker or tennis means we hit our best form when it matters then that's fine.

there is a problem with the current system and that's two fold. There is a lack of contunial competetive games to improve standards. So our reserves get a testing time against the teams with lower talent levels. I'd rather see our internationals having to work and improve every week by having a similar level of opposition to play. But there's not the talent pool, or the level of coaching staff to sustain this. There's certainly not the finance to warrant reducing the number of teams either.

Also if the competition as a whole means that more than half the teams are in the business end, then where's the incentive to finish top at all costs ?

Until there can be a competition where winning it means more then it does now, finishing half way up the table isn't rewarded with a play off place, and there are no games where there is a difference in quality to the extent that you put your reserve squad out, then there are those that quite rightly ask why they should put their hands in their pockets each week and not cherry pick their attendance.

If you are TS, what is your objective ??

Answer: To win as much silverware as possible by producing a highly motivated, high quality team of athletes.

So if it's only necessary to get into the top 2 or 4 at the end of the season, why would you not rest players before the CC where you could easily get knocked out and miss one of the two top prizes ? Secondly, you have to keep an eye on 2013-4 and need to provide experience to your young stars, because you wish to be successful in the future as well. So you pick a team that you think can get the 2 points and satisfy the above as well. If you get beaten, tough titty, you are only half way through the season and you only need that top 4 position.

So the problem here is with the structure of SL. We should NOT be moaning about the team that TS puts out. Similarly, it's not TS fault that there are weaker teams in the league. OK you say, but what happens if attendances start to fall because fans don't wish to pay top whack to see a weakened team play ? Personally I agree with the poster that said this does not seem to be a problem and compares our situation to premier league football. But even if it did / does happen, its a problem for the RLFC to solve - they are the ones that created it with the current structure of SL. Although fans and club can demand change, its their problem NOT the Wire's.

So my bottom line is don't come on here whinging and winding people up.

If you don't wish to pay the money to see the game, don't go.
If you don't like SL with several weak teams, go and watch some other sport.
If you don't like to read what fans post about their side then stop reading it.

I wasn't at the game so can't comment on the atmosphere.

But to me - we beat a good Salford side with a team made up of our most promising youngsters. Personally, I enjoy seeing the young kids playing, seeing who is going to be a class player etc. I certainly don't see it as reduced entertainment because I'm there to support my hometown team.

If I watched Warrington for entertainment, I'd have stopped going about 20 years ago!



I appreciate it's different for everyone and I'm not trying to make this a I'm a better fan than you type nonesense (I've only been to 1 game all season so it would be hypocrtical of me anyway.)

I think you are missing the point here Sally. If we spend our cash on high salary imports from the NRL there is less to spend on the youth system and club development. If, for the sake of argument we only had players coming through the youth system, all clubs would be working their socks off to encourage their local schools and companies to field sides and encourage growth. They would spend more time coaching youngsters, we would have better facilities for training etc etc .The emphasis would inevitably ensure a growth at grass roots level. I don't see any reason why this would not lead to high quality players coming through the system to take the place of the NRL imports. We would still be watching exciting high quality rugby, but it would be predominantly UK players.
I am not saying have no imports, simply that we should be able to nurture most of our own. And that might mean we could finally sit down to a Aus vs Eng match with the expectation of a win rather than defeat.

Im finding it increasingly more difficult to get overly excited for league games now.

Last season was brilliant.. we battled hard for every point, winning the league was a great achievement, and proved that we were the best team.... Then we went out in the playoffs and we had to watch a grand final contested by two teams we had beaten home and away in the league.... The players gave their all, finished the league on top and ended up with nothing off the back of a penalty in one game...

Bottom line is the OP is right... we now have a season that is based on a few games AFTER the long hard slog of the league is over... We now have a competition in which it doesn't really matter if you lose 5/6/7 league games.. As one fan said to his mate when we were getting mullered by wakefield "doesn't matter anyway its only a league match"... Unfortunately thats the game were in these days...

So are we the fans bothered about winning the league? i would say the majority don't really care after last season... as long as we finish top 4 I would be happy. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the players also felt the same way... and we can see from player selection that Smith's attitude has changed.

like it or not most league games are little more than friendly's now.

One question, if you have an advantage in the playoffs by not winning too many games during the season then how come we didn't win Super League when Cullen was in charge?

Surely then we could have taken on teams like Bradford, Saints etc who had burned themselves out through the full season and then we could have taken advantage and gone on to win the playoffs?

To be fair though ,if this new plan of winning from down the league is the way forward ,i am sure it wouldn't have taken 16 years for a wily manager to sniff it out & avoid working his team into the ground for 27 weeks.I am sure that last season Leeds just came into form at the right time to get to O/T & Wembley after what was one of their worst SL seasons... after all wasn't Brian McDermott hanging on by the skin of his teeth at one stage ?
Ok, they might still be jittery at times & inexperienced ,but the youngsters are the future & can't be ignored.

Dissatisfied.. I'm confused.. didn't we win at weeekend, and hopefully got to watch the next tier of talent coming through the system, where exactly are the lads supposed to get the experience, or as some previous posters have already stated is Tony Smith and the club, see whether they can handle the next level.

I agree it wasn't the most expansive rugby we've watched the side play, but at least it made me sit up and kept me there to the end with game being a close call.. and if you feel p****d off watching our so called second team (I thought they were all part of the first team squad...!) How the hell do you think Salford felt..
Well done lads and like the other thread states.. The Future is Bright!!!!

I don't think we lost league games in the Cullen era because we were resting our better players and playing promising youngsters, we lost because we put out strong teams that were simply not good enough. If the players you have are not good enough in the first place, it doesn't matter how much rest they are given.

I am sure you are correct about Leeds. During the early season they looked exactly like us this year, with daft offloads, dropped ball etc etc. They were playing catch up in the league all season. Fortunately (for them) they suddenly put it all together at the back end of the season and went on to win SL. I think the point about Leeds though is that it doesn't matter about finishing 5th, because you still get to play in the playoffs. All those poor games they played, all the points they dropped, all the heavy defeats, counted for nothing at the end of the season.

So, if you have a squad with quality in depth and you are close to the top of the league, you stand a better chance of winning SL if your 1st team pick arrives at the playoffs with no niggly injuries and not mentally or physically tired. It doesn't guarantee that you will win; its a knockout competition and anything can happen 'on the day'. But the odds are stacked in your favour.

It was always 'weakened teams' under Cullen, I remember every week when we lost the debate on here was always the same

Me, Wires71 and the cynics: "we are crap, we will never win anything till we change the coach, we should go for someone like Hanley or John Lang"

The All New Chester Wire and the loyalists: "knee jerk reaction, look at the players we had out: Reardon, Sullivan, Johnson, Rauhihi, Bridge, Vinnie Anderson, when we have these first teamers back we are as good as anyone"

Various other posters: "the future is bright as these games that Bracek/Pickersgill/Penny are playing now will stand them in good stead for the future, they will be the bedrock of our side for years to come"

Interesting debate, this.
One point I'd like to make - there seems to be a lot of assumption on here that we are not bothered about finishing first this year, but a look at the table might suggest otherwise!
Maybe we still want to achieve it, but to do it smarter, so there's still something left in the tank for the play-offs.
As for the Salford game, yes it was a flat atmosphere and a poor game, but if I had a pound for every time I'd experienced that at the HJ or Wilderspool over the past 40 years I'd be doing OK!
I'm just happy we got the win and some young players got vital game time. It's not going to be champagne rugby every week, I'm afraid, but I reckon we'll get better and better as the season progresses.

I agree we're only one point off the top spot!

What happens if the top two lose a game and we win, we could end up back in the same position we were in last year and all this planning will have been for nothing.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion,someone said if you dont like what you see dont go,that is the wrong thing to say,as i said everyone is entitled to an opinion,we all have ideas what we want to see.

Old saying/ YOU CAN PLEASE SOME OF THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME BUT CANT PLEASE ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME.

Or something like that.