Quote ="TheButcher"I'm amazed at people with this attitude. Willing to forego forty years of support over a name. It's still the same Club. The same players. The same stadium. The same history. It seems totally weird to me. ''" But what if it was a different name and a different stadium? Like this place, for example: www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ng-7170040

Quote ="TheButcher"I'm amazed at people with this attitude. Willing to forego forty years of support over a name. It's still the same Club. The same players. The same stadium. The same history. It seems totally weird to me. ''" But what if it was a different name and a different stadium? Like this place, for example: www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ng-7170040

Quote ="Wayward Fan"But what if it was a different name and a different stadium? Like this place, for example: www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ng-7170040'" I don't get your point. Makes no difference to me. Sports Clubs, especially those that have been around a long time have invariably gone through many changes. Salford changed its name and ground to go to the Willows. We changed the name while at the Willows. We've moved now to Barton and changed name again. So I don't get what you're getting at. It'd be the same Club, same players, same history. Unless I'm missing the point.

Quote ="Wayward Fan"But what if it was a different name and a different stadium? Like this place, for example: www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ng-7170040'" I don't get your point. Makes no difference to me. Sports Clubs, especially those that have been around a long time have invariably gone through many changes. Salford changed its name and ground to go to the Willows. We changed the name while at the Willows. We've moved now to Barton and changed name again. So I don't get what you're getting at. It'd be the same Club, same players, same history. Unless I'm missing the point.

So if it's still the same club with the same players, the same stadium and the same history, and the name is insignificant compared to those factors, what do you (devil's) advocate a name change would achieve?

If you read what I said you wouldn't need to ask.

I don't think it would do anything at this point in time. All of this was hypothetical. My point being, regardless of my opinion, the 'Name change' debate to me seems nonsensical in that people declare that they would turn their back on their Club over a name. Which to me seems totally weird.

I have memorabilia from years ago and this is the first time Salford isn’t on any of the merchadidise …I hate to bring football into this but what do think Wimbledon fans think? Maybe we should move 30 miles away change our name and become a totally different club!!

You'd have to ask them.

Some sports Clubs have moved around, changed name and location. It will always be divisive and the fact remains that those Clubs chose to do so for very good reasons and fans either give up on them, which seems a strange thing to do, or follow them. Given a choice I'd always follow my team regardless of circumstances. I don't understand why it seems to be such an alien suggestion to some people.

Good point. Highfield moved around and changed their name once or twice (Wigan, Liverpool, London etc) and it didn't do them any harm, did it?

Nice confirmation bias.

What's your beef here?

I get your point. A name change wont do anything. You wouldn't like a name change. Name changes/Clubs moving is very bad etc etc. Stupid thing here, is that I agree with you. In our situation at the moment it wouldn't do anything. The point I've been making is the attitude of some to a name change. The possible outcomes of what fans feel and think. To point out selectively a side point not really related to the original is to miss the point completely.

I read what you said and yet still needed to ask because something wasn't clear to me. You said this:

So, it would have to be tried. The question I was asking was why? What do you, albeit playing devil's advocate, think it would achieve? It now appears you're saying it wouldn't achieve anything, so this raises another question: why would it have to be tried?

Because I've chosen to express a contentious opinion in order to provoke debate or test the strength of the opposing arguments.

Calm down are kid

To, two, too far.

That you've expressed a contentious opinion is without doubt. Whether it was intended to provoke debate or not is...errr...debatable since you've tried to stifle any debate by shouting down someone who expressed a different, equally contentious opinion, and by avoiding requests for further information.

However, I think you're smart enough to see where my question was leading: to the contradiction that lies at the heart of the name change as you've expressed it. If it's important enough for a change to achieve anything, it's important enough for someone to get upset about it. That's why it's a very high risk strategy. Desperation stuff.

I don't think I've shouted anyone down. I was genuinely amazed that a fan could turn their back on their Club over such an issue and I've talked about that, and expressed my opinion. Like I've said plenty of times already I was just arguing from the other point of view to see if others could do so to. I said that a change NOW would probably be a negative option regardless of argument as my own personal feelings on the matter. However, I don't make these decisions, and if the Club moved out of Salford or changed its name at some point in the future I'd still follow it because it's my team and Club that I've followed from being a kid and I would never turn my back on it. The fact that others could is their prerogative and is totally alien to me, but that's fine if it's their feelings.

You're right in that it's a high risk thing to do, which is why I think that a move away would be the preferred option of a desperate management, before a name change. A name change splits your hardcore support whereas a move isolates less. Hopefully none of this will come to pass as the Salford Public will find its mojo again soon.

A new ground inSswinton. Salford and Swinton to merge call themselves Manchester, job done. Look forward to bumper attendances

I like it tooooooooooooooooo

WOOOOOSH!

I'm amazed that you're amazed, so it's amazement all round. The argument for changing the name is that potential new supporters are put off by the Salford name (although the only evidence that ever gets provided for this assertion seems to be that "it stands to reason"icon_wink.gif. It would be the same club, same players, etc. So, in that argument, the name is important. If the name is important, then, then it's important to everyone so, inevitably, a number of existing supporters will be upset and will stop supporting the club. In order to make the argument in favour of a name change work, you have to hold the contradictory position that the name is important and not important at the same time: it's important to potential new fans and not important to the existing ones.

Having said that, I hold a similar contradictory opinion, but it's the other way round: the name is important to the current fans but less important to new ones. The reason for this is that the club's impressive track record of not amounting to much has left us down to the diehards. These are the people who turn up to watch their team even though its trophy cabinet is so bare, stolen photos of it end up on dodgy websites. And that club is called Salford. This lack of success is also, I would argue, the thing that dissuades potential new supporters. It's a disappointing but relevant fact that there is not a single player currently in Super League who wasn't still swimming around in his father's nut sack last time Salford won anything of significance. And that includes Adrian Morley. It's not an attractive proposition, and this is why a name change is such a high risk strategy. You alienate existing fans with no guarantee of attracting new ones.

Not only that, but this. Here's a couple of lists, grabbed off the miracle of [url=http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/the Rugby League Project[/url. Care to guess what they are?

[listCastleford (0)
Leeds (0)
Hull FC (1)
Wigan (1)
Warrington (2)
Huddersfield (5)
St Helens (6)
Catalans (7)
Bradford (11)
London (15)
Sheffield Eagles (16)
Widnes (21)
Halifax (26)
Hull Kingston Rovers (2icon_cool.gif
Featherstone Rovers (31)
Wakefield Trinity (35)
Leigh (43)
Salford (45)
Barrow (47)
Hunslet (49)
Workington (56)
Dewsbury (71)
[/list:u
[listLeeds (0)
Wigan (1)
Warrington (2)
St Helens (6)
Hull FC (9)
Bradford (11)
Sheffield Eagles (16)
Halifax (27)
Castleford (2icon_cool.gif
Widnes (30)
Featherstone Rovers (31)
Hull Kingston Rovers (34)
Leigh (43)
Wakefield Trinity (51)
Barrow (59)
Huddersfield (61)
Workington (62)
Dewsbury (71)
Salford (76)
[/list:u
Once you've worked out what they are, you'll see it doesn't make for good reading. Addressing this is what will bring the punters in. As we've seen with other clubs, as soon as you start flashing a bit of silverware - or even just create the possibility of flashing a bit of silverware - you attract a whole bunch of [delglory hunters[/del people who have always supported the club but have previously done so from a safe distance.

I think we're on the right lines. Just.

The second list is the number of years since we won the Challenge Cup. Not sure about the first one.

The first is the number of years since we reached the CC final.

This thread is just going around in circles now, and some of the drawn out arguments (My own included) are beginning to look like we've been sitting in a crack house, passively smoking for too/to/two/toooo long.

Suffice to say I understand and don't disagree with you RJ. What you're saying makes sense. Most of it anyway



And it shows how subjective these kind of decisions would be if they happened.

Only read the top couple of entries, but is the first list "Number of Forks in a Typical Family Tree"?

Excellent shot sir. Well played.

The first list is the average mensa IQ of fans per Town.
The second the number of 'intact females '?

Well seeing as the thread is going down the usual route of supporters "in breeding" why not call the club Marwans Red Devils and then you could play where ever he wants.

Do you mean in-breeding ?

Suprised you do not know the difference ... or do your fans breed at matches (it would explain the number of comments you lot make with f***ing).