Mr Inferno, when you're not spitting out the vitriol you talk much sense.
I enjoyed the game at The Emptyhead, best entertainment of the day - probably not one for the RL purist, but for excitement and nail biting definitely a cracker.
What seemed apparent to me was team spirit and commitment to the cause - we never gave up and got our reward on the day.
But DI you are right, the table doesn't lie, we are where we are because of the performances delivered - what's needed is more like the Huddersfield game and fewer like HKR or Wakefield.

We won a game against a top four side.


We are on 10th spot due to our previous losses.

If we play well in the next few games and lose, that happens to other teams.

Huddersfield didn't win it in the last few seconds we did.

Huddersfield didn't score with every attack, they were pressurized into bad plays on several occasions.

I thought that our defence looked good at times, and not so good on other occasions and this needs more work by the coaches and players alike.

I agree 100% I think its Steve Simms fault.

Is this the change that every single person connected with Salford realises needs to happen (and I mean everybody) but is never forthcoming year after year?

It obviously helps your mental state so feel free to keep pointing that finger DI but realise the situation could get a hell of a lot worse. Maybe the board should grant you and others your wishes by cutting their losses and withdrawing their guarantees. How does playing our home games at Sedgley Park in NL2 in front of about 300 spectators grab you? Now that would give you and your mates something to come on here and whinge about wouldn't it?

Why can't you just be realistic and accept that unless someone wants to come in and throw some real serious money at it, the club will never live upto your very high expectations.

Is this the change that every single person connected with Salford realises needs to happen (and I mean everybody) but is never forthcoming year after year?

It obviously helps your mental state so feel free to keep pointing that finger DI but realise the situation could get a hell of a lot worse. Maybe the board should grant you and others your wishes by cutting their losses and withdrawing their guarantees. How does playing our home games at Sedgley Park in NL2 in front of about 300 spectators grab you? Now that would give you and your mates something to come on here and whinge about wouldn't it?

Why can't you just be realistic and accept that unless someone wants to come in and throw some real serious money at it, the club will never live upto your very high expectations.

Excellent post and I think sums things up perfectly.

While we don't have the free spending owner we would like, it is possible to fall into the second category of a club well run on limited resources. While we have the limited resources and seem to have managed the balance sheet adequately in terms of incomings and outgoings (as far as we can publicly tell) it is clear we are not maximising the resources and opportunities we have.

From the micro to the macro everyone on this forum could list ways in which the club's performance falls below a satisfactory level spanning back decades. The most recent stark example of this being the revelations in Alker's book. I haven't read it but people assure me the club come across as somewhat less than professional in terms of all the antics that were going on and their inability or unwillingness to take the necessary measures to prevent it. Andy Wilson described us as operating like a 'rogue club' in regards to everything that was happening during this period.

Most Salford fans will also hear horror stories that emerge from back channels out of the club that make you shiver that a supposed professional sports club can act in such a way. When the club do get exposed for being incompetent they just roll out the weak 'The buck stops with someone else' excuse and attempt to remove themselves from blame.

We can't expect to generate the extra income we need to develop a better team if we continue to operate in such a way, with poor systems and procedures, no accountability and no fresh ideas anywhere in the club.

There is no point fans with differing views attempting to point score off each other on here everytime we get a certain result. Sunday was an excellent performance and very enjoyable but it was the first win since March, hardly a resounding affirmation of the current management. If we improve towards the end of the season and secure a play off position then I would support offering PV a new contract. If the season peters out with long periods without a win and disheartening displays then I won't. Like Keynes said when the facts change I change my mind. Some people on this forum seem to have a great loyalty towards people simply doing a job as if they personally know them as friends. My loyalty is to Salford RLFC and that's all I'm bothered about, we shouldn't view individual people as if they are an extension of the club, especially if they are not upto the job.

Nor should we, with very little understanding of what people's jobs entail (aside from a pre-disposed notion gained from agenda-holding contributors of a web forum), suggest who is and isn't capable.

My 'agenda' is the improvement of Salford RLFC, not sure how that differs from eveyone else on here. The whole point of a forum and being a supporter is to pass opinions on who is and isn't upto a job based on the evidence in front of you.

Example: Alker running amok on drink and drugs as revealed in his own book would be evidence that someone in a supervisory role above him failed.

If you read the book (I have ... twice), then you'll realise he's pointing several fingers at the ethos in Rugby League of hard drinking, the constant use of pain-killers (and peer pressure for muscle drugs) and the use of recreational drugs on occasion.
It's not only at Salford bur rife ... a matter he points out more than once.

Re dinosaurs and Cro-Magnon men etc.,
it makes no difference. If we do not find a new funding stream soon, with Mr Wilkinson's current age and situation (and I hope he lives healthily into his hundreds), we might face a critical situation soon.
I hope we never sit around reminiscing like Oldham, Featherstone, Halifax, Leigh, or Keighley.

When supported with evidence, sure. It's the "[iwhat does X even do? Sack him!![/i" reactionists I was eluding to.


Perhaps. I haven't read the book but preventing occasional bouts of d*ckhead behaviour from a squad of 30-ish professional rugby players sounds like an impossibility.

Agree with this. Some of the excuses trotted out on the facebook page for certain failings are quite remarkable. Am hoping the new junior reds scheme will be a run correctly rather than being quietly kicked into touch in a couple of months times.

They can only quietly kick it into touch if we as fans dont back it, just like Neville we ask for a devil we get a devil now the club have starting brightly by using him for photo opportunities us fans should be sharing it on our social media so everybody knows he and we exist and are moving in a different direction.
IF NEVILLE AND THE JUNIOR DEVILS GET QUIETLY KICKED INTO TOUCH BY PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING FOR QUICK FIXES WHICH THE SCHEME AND NEVELLE ARNT WE ONLY HAVE OURSELVES TO BLAME, we the fans make stuff popular at the end of the day they cant stop somthing that is a success.

I Do agree with Walshy a bit Salford City Reds RLFC is my main concern but being friends with people who have an effect is a positive thing as a fans we expect / want promotion of our club, Growth of our support and an increase in revenue and if an idea is hatched and passed on and tinkered with then produced by the club then its fair game for me.

At the end of the day we are run on a shoe string, the people who have the honour of working in the club work reaily hard but unfortunatley in my opion are let down by lack of funding both on projects and man power when you compair it to other superleague clubs who have 2 or 3 times as many people working within it this allows you to get the small things right as the work load is shared around more evenly.

Ive said it before with the wages saved by lets say Luke pattern retiring id be happier if the club used the money to employ 5 or 6 more people to bump up the clubs administation side and iron out the problems with communication, marketing, retail and promotion as i feel how the club functions off the field and its relationship with current fans / potential fans / potential investors in this modern day is probably as important as what goes on the field.

So reaily the club looks out for further investment, us fans get behind Forever Reds and try and mobalise like 2003, promote the positives from the club as much as me can and hopefully sooner rather than later with a bit of luck our efforts will be rewarded with a higher profile and more money from a new investor to spend on better players .

Your post in my opinion is another perfect example of a supporter with prejudice views against the Management and the running of the club.

How do you stop players drinking or taking drugs in their own time away from the club? Hire 25 private detectives or ask them to leave their families and live in an army style environment under 24-hour supervision?

You say a supervisory person at the club has failed on this issue but in my opinion its the player(s) doing it that fail because they are professional athletes who know the damaging effect it can have on their bodies and their careers.

There has to be an element of trust between employer and employee. Can you imagine the humiliating effect it would have if someone from the club regularly turned up unannounced on a players doorstep at 8:00am on a Saturday morning with a breathalysing kit? Just blow into this bag whilst your wife and kids watch because we don't trust you.

I think you also have to take into account that Alker’s book was sensationalised with exaggerated stories to simply sell more copies. I don't think stories about coffee morning gatherings discussing types of flowers with his teammates would make an interesting read for your typical rugby league supporter, do you?

And for the record I'm not under the illusion the club could not be run better, I'm sure there is room for improvement just like any other rugby club or business.

I just think some people are programmed to repeatedly shoot from the hip rather than taking a step back and thinking things through.

So all these "other" supporters with "prejudices" against the management and running of the club, we are all wrong I take it? Maybe it's people like yourself need to take a step back from defending the club at all cost and realise and openly discuss how under the same structure's the club is not only falling behind but effectively being run into the ground.

Wrong? I'd say the word is 'unaware' of the conditions and constraints the club will be working under. I'm not intentionally defending anybody, I was just looking at the above critisism from a different perspective.

On your point about falling behind other clubs, who would you say Salford are falling behind?
Bradford? Castleford? Wakefield? London? Leigh? Swinton? Rochdale? Halifax? Crusaders? etc . . what is it these clubs doing so well? In my opinion the only clubs we are falling behind are those with either wealthy benefactors or a long tradition of bigger crowds and higher income.

That's not an argument because the same can be applied back to you. There's lots of people who believe the opposite of you and it does not make them wrong either. You have an opinion, they have an opinion. All the points scoring off each other is pointless because you'll never convince someone of the other side that they are wrong.

When someone from either side actually is wrong (And it happens often) they just ignore it or play it off as a one off.

I really don't understand why people just don't sit in the middle and praise when it goes right and slag-off when it goes wrong.

I hear what your saying but this forum is so frustrating. I'm pretty new on here compared to other people and maybe I'm wrong but there is a clique form where a few posters stick together. Now that's fine but what I can gather prior to my time on this forum, negativity if you wish to call it that, I call it constructive criticism has rarely been spoken about. People seem to hold the club and the people that run it in such high regard. If it wasn't Wilkinson putting money into the club it would be some other mug doing it, so don't think he is the messiah as undoubtedly many on here think he is. It's come to the pathetic stage now were, certain people are baiting a reaction or goading posters into making comment, maybe these posters have sad pathetic life's and this virtual social life they have on here is only how they can interact, who knows? No since I obviously have issues with the club regarding the people in the suits, how can they continue to take money out of the club when failing at their job? If you want examples I have numerous and I'll quite happily iron them out because I'm sure of my reasons. Rather than people defending the club, "well we don't have the resources" Actually not everything is money dependent. Their is numerous thing that make this club look amature and still nothing changes? That's another issue. I praise when praise is due but ultimately people don't have notice because we all love praise on this forum but soon as you doubt the club, the same people chip away and won't accept the criticism. What tops it off, when they know we're right and feel the need to comment on grammar, WOW so hurtful. Anyway rant over and because you ask yes I have my violin at the ready!

Indeed:

Can I ask what this post was meant to 'achieve', as it were? What is the point of it, other than a direct, confrontational post designed to cause an argument? How is posting something like this better than the same posts from 'the other side'? It's a bit hard to take the morale high ground when you're equally childish about things. I'm sure the point could have been made without directly targetting individuals.

Still, it is nice to see that, amongst the utter dross, there is some small attempt to have a proper debate. So...



There could still be random or regular drug tests during training - a lot of jobs have drug tests as standard, surely it makes sense for professional sports clubs to do something like that to make sure their employees are doing what they can to keep in top condition?

Yes, it is down to the player at the end of the day, but as their actions can have a direct influence on the club then it should be monitored to a certain degree. If someone sees one of the players out drugged up to their eyeballs then that can have a damaging effect on the club's reputation as well as the potential effect on their career.

Although, I do agree that it is potentially a hard one to judge and carry out without making it seem like you're untrusting of the players or treating them like kids. Having said that, I hope they're less child-like than the average footballer!

After the sucsess of last weekend had hoped that the doom mongers might disapear but doubt we're that lucky.

Something that did strike me after the weekend is that with the interested generated in the Manchester area and with the massive development in the area surrounding the City stadium I'd not be surprised if the powers that be there make a play for a SL franchise. I've seen on some of the plans that there is a rugby stadium being built and you can't doubt the rest of the facilities already in situ. A rugby league franchise would be spare change to the people with the money at City and could potentially lead to the kind of investment RL needs.

There's a rugby union pitch being laid down at East Manchester Academy, and the RFU are trying to fund the establishment of an amateur RU club in Beswick. In terms of RL, there are vague mentions in the overall area strategy about something at Belle Vue involving the existing Mancunians RL club. Not sure if the plan is for them to play on the infield of the new speedway stadium.

Just because some people have a broader or different outlook and offer their views on the situation makes them part of a clique that goads, baits and defends the club at all costs does it? Ohh and people that don't share some of your opinions are all sad pathetic individuals who can't socially interact.

I was going to offer you some construction criticism but . . . .

Is Programmethrower a builder?





Sorry couldn't resist