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Gruffy, I'm not sure what you mean by Independent.
Forever Reds has to have a working relationship with the club, and as a spokesman/person Shirl is hardly going to say anything to the press that is slagging off the board. That's her public profile. That doesn't mean she and the board of Forever Reds all hold those views or don't discuss the failing of the club in private or the meetings.
What Shirl and Al do in their personal life is their business and I think they should be commended in enabling Theo to be signed by the club. Maybe if we had more people willing to take on this role the world would be a better place, and our academy would have a larger pool of players
I am not a current member of Forever Reds mainly because personal stuff stopped us attending the meetings and therefore not nagged to renew. I still believe the values of FR are worthy of support and if you attended the meeting you may change your mind as votes are taken on what to do with any funds raised. Better still put yourself forward for the next board elections and make change happen.
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I joined and renewed my membership a number of times in the early days of FR.
Due to work etc I was unable to attend meetings but was happy to give any monetary support etc as it was helping the club.
Over the years it appears to have become an old boys club with too much of a cushy link to the present board and players.
Even JW hinted at this at the meeting.
If it is independent then surely concerns should have been raised at how the stadium move and subsequent mismanagement was unfolding ?
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All this is not helping and deflecting from the pressing issue of not having a club to follow.
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For once my mate Mich (whom I am very disappointed to see has blocked me) is talking sense. Now is the time all you Reds fans should be pulling together,not in fighting amongst yourselves.
If all of you sing from the same hymn sheet then there are enough of you to perhaps save you club.
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| Quote ="Marshy1"For once my mate Mich (whom I am very disappointed to see has blocked me) is talking sense. Now is the time all you Reds fans should be pulling together,not in fighting amongst yourselves.
If all of you sing from the same hymn sheet then there are enough of you to perhaps save you club.'"
It's doubtful that will happen.
I just think that there will be so little interest from 'fans' that anything financial will be pocket money at best. That's not to say we shouldn't try, you never know, stranger things have happened. |
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It does appear most supporters have accepted the end! Will forever reds or some other supporter organisation be calling for an open meeting, as all I see at present is us still going around in circles & time fast running out?
It better to have tried & lost than sit waiting for the end?
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| Quote ="redgunner"It does appear most supporters have accepted the end! Will forever reds or some other supporter organisation be calling for an open meeting, as all I see at present is us still going around in circles & time fast running out?
It better to have tried & lost than sit waiting for the end?'"
We certainly need some sort of supporters meeting to put a plan together, although I fear with the way the 'potential investors' ploy has been continually strung out by the club that it could be too late. |
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| Quote ="Iain"Secondly, Forever Reds is accountable to it's members and the FSA...'"
Are they accountable to the FSA? What is their FRN? What is their registered name on the Financial Services Register? I only ask because I work for the FSA and had a look the other day for a "Forever Reds" firm in our database 
Also, as a former member of Forever Reds I need to declare my association in our HR systems  |
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Amazing. The club hits a time of crisis and people turn on a supporters' trust with some baffling accusations. Unfortunately I've seen this before... If we don't pull together and drop this nonsense we're screwed.
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| Quote ="SteveH"Are they accountable to the FSA? What is their FRN? What is their registered name on the Financial Services Register? I only ask because I work for the FSA and had a look the other day for a "Forever Reds" firm in our database
Also, as a former member of Forever Reds I need to declare my association in our HR systems
'"
I think Iain means FSA Mutuals register [url=https://mutuals.fsa.gov.uk/SocietyDetails.aspx?Number=29825&Suffix=Rforever reds[/url |
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| Quote ="lancetodd"when this lot go.'"
And this from a `man` always keen to shake the Chairmans hand after crossing the pitch. Talk about `two faces`. Tell you what lance - whichever side you take I will take the opposite. |
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| Quote ="lancetodd"Don't involve me in your spat,Grufy's post is to good for me,and you for that matter. I can asure you you he is no
relation,but he has some good points don't you agree,I can also say it does not irk me that some people are helping
out,thats good.I think we will get more people helping,when this lot go.'"
Point out any of his good points please! |
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Early Bath,I talk to anybody who talks to me,If somebody offers there hand I shake it,that's what we did in the part
of Salford I came from,also if we had anything to say,we said it to the face,what I have always done
with Mr wilkinson. And I could not care less what side your on.
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| Quote ="lancetodd" And I could not care less what side your on.'"
Well I am 100% with the Chairman.I am a loyal man. Clearly you are not. |
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| Quote ="Gruffy"1) How many members is it? Whist you do not have to make this public, if Forever Reds speaks for the majority of the 4,000 average gate, where is the need to hide the number? If I am a minority then tell me.
2) As to the two people providing lodgings, if they receive a payment from the club for this, then I would say that this is not independent of the club as they are on the payroll. If this is the case then to be an independent organisation they should not be in any way on the Forever Reds Committee, and I would hope that they are not.
As to the role of the Forever Reds it has done as I have said previously a lot of good work. But its whole existence shows the state and problems of Salford City Reds. A well run club should not need to ask its supporters to pay for all the things Forever Reds has paid for. Forever Reds was set up a number of years ago to provide short term help for the club after relegation and its still here providing help, and the people getting the help are the ones who have ruined this club. Mr Wilkinson et al know they don't have to find money for example for the academy as Forever Reds will provide because they want the best for the club.'"
Quite simply the trust should put out an official statement stating their position and whether they will be raising funds to sit alongside new investors and owners or raising funds to support the current incumbants. People will decide to either support it or not once clarity has been given. Whilst doubt remains then the likelihood of success is unlikely. |
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| International Chairman | 587 | No
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| Quote ="middleman"I think Iain means FSA Mutuals register [url=https://mutuals.fsa.gov.uk/SocietyDetails.aspx?Number=29825&Suffix=Rforever reds[/url'"
Ah, that might be why I couldn't find it in TARDIS (yes, we have a system called TARDIS lol)
I still have to declare it though, especially as I'll probably rejoin now. |
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| Quote ="Early Bath"Well I am 100% with the Chairman.I am a loyal man. Clearly you are not.'"
Clearly a Fool.or an employee. |
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| Quote ="Theboyem"Quite simply the trust should put out an official statement stating their position and whether they will be raising funds to sit alongside new investors and owners or raising funds to support the current incumbants. People will decide to either support it or not once clarity has been given. Whilst doubt remains then the likelihood of success is unlikely.'"
Do you think you will get your wish,we should all be praying for new owners. |
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I've still not got a reply as to the numbers in Forever Reds! Or clarification if the people who put players up receive payment or are on the board.
Looking at the forum its always the same four or five people who post. This shows were the club is going.
Out of interest why is Forever Reds a limited company and not a charity?
Theboyem is quite correct Forever Reds should make a statement are they for this regime or against it. Why should supporters raise money to give to the people who have mismanaged the club. We are not all in the same position as the gent who stood at the meeting pledging £1000. Its a pity he didn't have the other £599,999 to go with it.
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| Quote ="Gruffy"Out of interest why is Forever Reds a limited company and not a charity?'"
All supporters trusts formed via Supporters Direct are IPSs - a type of limited company - rather than charities.
Quote ="Gruffy"Theboyem is quite correct Forever Reds should make a statement are they for this regime or against it.'"
I imagine the trust is [ifor[/i saving the current incarnation of the Salford RLFC, rather than supporting regimes. I couldn't say for certain because I'm only a member. |
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| Quote ="Gruffy"I've still not got a reply as to the numbers in Forever Reds! Or clarification if the people who put players up receive payment or are on the board.
Looking at the forum its always the same four or five people who post. This shows were the club is going.
Out of interest why is Forever Reds a limited company and not a charity?
Theboyem is quite correct Forever Reds should make a statement are they for this regime or against it. Why should supporters raise money to give to the people who have mismanaged the club. We are not all in the same position as the gent who stood at the meeting pledging £1000. Its a pity he didn't have the other £599,999 to go with it.'"
I am a Forever Reds member and I don't know just how many members there are currently but if we only have fifty members who wish to assist the club in any way that they can this is better than having none. and if you or anyone else wish to become involved come along,join up and then put yourself forward to be elected on to the board its that simple.
With regards people who provide accommodation/lodging to players receiving any payment for doing so, are you suggesting that there should be no payment?Personally I feel that its a matter between the people/player/club and nothing to do with anyone else.
We have many non members attending FR meetings, possibly you have over the years, some like them,some return some don't, but one thing I know about the regular attenders is that they are as upset as yourself about what has happened but they have adopted a different approach to help the club at this time.
Which four or five people posting are you referring to? or are you referring to the ones that get their information second or third hand over a pint?
Several people offered £1000 last Monday and another £599999 would have meant that we had raised £999 more than we needed. How do you know that the gent in question could really afford £1000?Or does it not sit right with yourself that someone would take the trouble to attend the meeting and think that we would like to offer £1000 to the club? |
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I like the idea of supporters trusts but have never gotten round to joining forever reds. I've been to plenty of meetings though, know a lot of people who go, and pay a lot of attention to these forums. If I was a betting man I'd be putting lots on Gruffy being the son of another regular vindictive moaner on this site (itwill be denied by them... again)
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Tell you what folks you need all the fans you can get and to stick together. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but ganging up and playground mentality is not going to get you anywhere.
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Quote ="TV BOY"Tell you what folks you need all the fans you can get and to stick together'"
Couldn't agree more. I apologise for not being around to respond for a few days, so I'm going to attempt to answer a few questions then lock this thread because I'm sick of reading bitching when we need fans to put personal differences to one side for the good of having a club to watch.
How Many Members in Forever Reds:
I'm not membership secretary so don't have exact numbers, but it's about 90-100. It's not good really, and pretty embarrassing that Swinton have more members in their Trust than ours despite having gates of less than a fifth of ours. We (FR) have to admit we've not been efficient at notifying of renewals in the past and plenty of people have lapsed whilst still being supportive of the Trust (I think we peaked at around 350 members near official formation)
You can join here - foreverreds.co.uk/membership
Forever Reds is a Clique/Old Boys Group:
It really isn't. There's people that I only know through Forever Reds and only see at meetings, and other than that I know nothing about them. Sure, people who have been in the same group for years will get pally, but there's plenty of differences of opinion in the Trust. The Trust is constantly trying to recruit new members (not really the actions of a clique). The Trust has a 9 person board, half of which has to be re-elected every year, with any member being eligible to stand for election (subject to some legal limitations). All members are notified of this every year. In the last 6 years, nobody has come forward for election, despite, in most of those years being pretty much guaranteed a place as there were unfilled places on the board. The current Trust board are the only people who've put their hand up and offered to do it. The board is made up of 9 people and decisions are made democratically. As Company Secretary, I (backed by advice from Supporters Direct) have to make sure that due process is followed.
Why isn't Forever Reds a Charity?
There are now over 180 supporters trusts helped into existence by Supporters Direct. All adopt the Industrial & Provident Society Model - essentially a not-for-profit mutual society, owned by the members. By and large, unless a supporters trust is exclusively funding amateur sports they cannot be a charity, that is laid out in Charities legislation ( www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Pu ... /cc21.aspx)
And finally, I personally don't know whether members of the trust board who provide lodgings to Theo are recompensed by the club and it's none of my business. My business is making sure that all board members follow the Trusts rules. |
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Quote ="TV BOY"Tell you what folks you need all the fans you can get and to stick together'"
Couldn't agree more. I apologise for not being around to respond for a few days, so I'm going to attempt to answer a few questions then lock this thread because I'm sick of reading bitching when we need fans to put personal differences to one side for the good of having a club to watch.
How Many Members in Forever Reds:
I'm not membership secretary so don't have exact numbers, but it's about 90-100. It's not good really, and pretty embarrassing that Swinton have more members in their Trust than ours despite having gates of less than a fifth of ours. We (FR) have to admit we've not been efficient at notifying of renewals in the past and plenty of people have lapsed whilst still being supportive of the Trust (I think we peaked at around 350 members near official formation)
You can join here - foreverreds.co.uk/membership
Forever Reds is a Clique/Old Boys Group:
It really isn't. There's people that I only know through Forever Reds and only see at meetings, and other than that I know nothing about them. Sure, people who have been in the same group for years will get pally, but there's plenty of differences of opinion in the Trust. The Trust is constantly trying to recruit new members (not really the actions of a clique). The Trust has a 9 person board, half of which has to be re-elected every year, with any member being eligible to stand for election (subject to some legal limitations). All members are notified of this every year. In the last 6 years, nobody has come forward for election, despite, in most of those years being pretty much guaranteed a place as there were unfilled places on the board. The current Trust board are the only people who've put their hand up and offered to do it. The board is made up of 9 people and decisions are made democratically. As Company Secretary, I (backed by advice from Supporters Direct) have to make sure that due process is followed.
Why isn't Forever Reds a Charity?
There are now over 180 supporters trusts helped into existence by Supporters Direct. All adopt the Industrial & Provident Society Model - essentially a not-for-profit mutual society, owned by the members. By and large, unless a supporters trust is exclusively funding amateur sports they cannot be a charity, that is laid out in Charities legislation ( www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Pu ... /cc21.aspx)
And finally, I personally don't know whether members of the trust board who provide lodgings to Theo are recompensed by the club and it's none of my business. My business is making sure that all board members follow the Trusts rules. | |
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