After watching our season opener Vs Wigan I had a genuine buzz about the new season. Up until that point I really couldn't have given much of a toss.

I thought both us and Wigan played a really high intensity game with plenty of skill on show with little error on both sides with ball in hand.

After watching that then watching the rest of the games I tuned out by half time. This isn't some bias towards being interested in my own team only, I watch RL at many levels. I genuinely love watching the game. But I have to say, there are certain teams in SL dragging the standard down, the Hull Vs Leeds game seemed to go on for an eternity. Yes there were tries scored and there was some good play in the build up but on the whole the game was slow paced, error strewn and devoid of creativity.

Am I just old and grumpy and viewing SL 10 years ago through tinted specs or is anyone else feeling the same way? It's Rd.1 and it already looks like teams are playing half @r$ed.

Surprised by the Hudds result, Sezer could have the effect on them that Hastings had on Salford, top quality player. They could be the surprise team this year.

1) Saints picked up where they left off, but difficult to judge as Salford struggled, and with that number of new players and losing Hastings, not surprising
2) Leeds looked poor yesterday, Hull looked good but again difficult to judge.
3) Toronto will survive if they can avoid injuries
4) The play the ball is far far worse, a total lottery, a bit like RU scrums every one has an infringement but no way of knowing which side the Ref will favour. (Saints were pushing the boundaries on Friday and the ref allowed them to, Salford weren’t much better, but this really inhibits attacking play).

I give Chester 6 weeks, and I'll include the week past.

Dec Patton to save Chester's Job?

I thought Hull were vastly superior to anything on show at the DW and in far, far worse conditions. Hull were superb, strangled Leeds and didn't give them a chance to get back into the game. They really impressed me, their new forwards are monsters and if they keep them fit they are genuine contenders this year. The most impressive thing about them was their patience, they didn't care if it took three or four sets to score, they'd just set up camp on Leeds' line and force them to repeat sets. Slow paced and devoid of creativity? It was like playing in a swamp with a power shower on them for most of it. They played the conditions well and didn't give Leeds chance to get going. Sao, Ma'u and Satae would all walk into Warrington's 17, as would the likes of Connor, Jones and Naulago.

Wigan are dog awful, like Leeds. Both sides are absolutely terrible. Leeds will be mid table at best on that showing, they didn't look like they'd improved at all from last season. Demolished in the pack. Wigan were similar, they'll be better than last season because of Hastings and Wigan sides are always well coached, but their pack is also dreadful. Warrington started brightly and fought well so it's difficult to judge. Losing to Wigan isn't a great result, it's one you should be winning comfortably, but you can get back on par if you beat Saints on Thursday.

Somehow any topic ALWAYS involves you arriving and using it as a means to have a pop at Wire & Wigan.

Very predictable response from Saddened once again

Saddened is a typical Saints moron but on this occasion he's correct. We're over egging ourselves from last Thursday. Wigan are a poor side and that will become evident. We should've still picked up 2 points despite being a man down if we had more attacking guile and game management but alas both seem to be sadly lacking again. Saints or Hull would've done for Wigan had they been down to 10!! Widdop is going to have to make a massive difference. Too early to make any predictions but if you want to go off round 1 then Saints and Hull frontrunners and us possibly leading the chase. Hudds to be a surprise package.

Far too early to predict anything after Round 1

We need to shed this "plucky losers" attitude. We should have won the game and lost. It's as simple as that. Anything else and you are arguing for limitations.

I said it was difficult to judge your game. The red card obviously changed the game. Thursday this week will give us more of an idea. If we're missing Coote, Makinson, Roby, Walmsley and Knowles as is rumoured you've got a good chance. Wigan though were dire last season and didn't look any different on Thursday, you'd have won that game if Hill hadn't got sent off.

Surely we have to consider the circumstances. We were playing away at Wigan, with 12 men for most of the game. We could have folded, but played at a high intensity for 80 minutes. If we repeat that effort every week, then we are going to win more regularly than we did last year, because usually we won't be playing with 12 men.

You could see we have plenty of flaws in the starting line up and that is down to the recruitment. I still believe the basic problem at this club, if we want to win SL, is we haven't assembled a squad that looks good enough to be champions.

But thats a separate moan, now the season is underway we've got to work with what we have and the organisation and commitment was there, so I'm happy, and if we get that every week I'm excited about the season.

13 against 12 for 70 ish minutes, will normally result in a significant win for the full team 999 times out of a 1000. Otherwise teams would deliberately play a 12 man game. This performance (and the reaction to it) should not be judged as if it was a simple 13 v 13 game. Your response seems harsh to both the team and supporters.

I understand both posts and I am playing Devil's advocate to a certain extent. I completely agree we looked much better than the tail end of last season, showed some real grit and some real promising performances from some players. But rather than post match remark about plucky losers in the face of adversity as it was an act of god that conspired against us, we need to be considering this 2 points dropped arising from a poorly executed tackle and poor discipline letting down an otherwise strong performance. The poor discipline was not just the other sin binning but the 4? attempted ball steals gifting penalties and conceding field position. For contrast, do you remember 12 man Wigan beating us in 2016 at HWJ after we were 24-12 up too? They didn't argue for their limitations. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/ ... r-red-card

I understand both posts and I am playing Devil's advocate to a certain extent. I completely agree we looked much better than the tail end of last season, showed some real grit and some real promising performances from some players. But rather than post match remark about plucky losers in the face of adversity as it was an act of god that conspired against us, we need to be considering this 2 points dropped arising from a poorly executed tackle and poor discipline letting down an otherwise strong performance. The poor discipline was not just the other sin binning but the 4? attempted ball steals gifting penalties and conceding field position. For contrast, do you remember 12 man Wigan beating us in 2016 at HWJ after we were 24-12 up too? They didn't argue for their limitations. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/ ... r-red-card

Quote ="Wires71"I understand both posts and I am playing Devil's advocate to a certain extent. I completely agree we looked much better than the tail end of last season, showed some real grit and some real promising performances from some players. But rather than post match remark about plucky losers in the face of adversity as it was an act of god that conspired against us, we need to be considering this 2 points dropped arising from a poorly executed tackle and poor discipline letting down an otherwise strong performance. The poor discipline was not just the other sin binning but the 4? attempted ball steals gifting penalties and conceding field position. For contrast, do you remember 12 man Wigan beating us in 2016 at HWJ after we were 24-12 up too? They didn't argue for their limitations. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/ ... r-red-card'" 12 men Wire didn`t concede a try. It was only when we were down to 11 men that Wigan could score the winning try.

Quote ="Wires71"I understand both posts and I am playing Devil's advocate to a certain extent. I completely agree we looked much better than the tail end of last season, showed some real grit and some real promising performances from some players. But rather than post match remark about plucky losers in the face of adversity as it was an act of god that conspired against us, we need to be considering this 2 points dropped arising from a poorly executed tackle and poor discipline letting down an otherwise strong performance. The poor discipline was not just the other sin binning but the 4? attempted ball steals gifting penalties and conceding field position. For contrast, do you remember 12 man Wigan beating us in 2016 at HWJ after we were 24-12 up too? They didn't argue for their limitations. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/ ... r-red-card'" 12 men Wire didn`t concede a try. It was only when we were down to 11 men that Wigan could score the winning try.

Yes I agree with that, but also I see that as a problem that can be solved over the season. Remember in the early games of 2018, after Price had first taken over. We were losing games due to unforced errors and poor discipline but the organisation and commitment was much improved compared to where it had been in 2017. Over time the errors and discipline improved and we ended up having a much better season (2 major finals) than we would have expected going in to the year.

By the end of last year we seemed to be surrendering too easily so we needed a reset again at the signs against Wigan were positive. Although I'm not convinced on Price as being a coach who will win us SL I think we should acknowledge that during his time as coach we've had stretches where the team has looked more committed and tough than it has since Brian Johnson's era. It has also looked much more organised defensively. It hasn't been like that the whole way through - second half of last season we lost our way. But I do like the culture that Price seems to want to bring. It's what Wane had in Wigan. So if we recapture the best of that I'm encouraged.

My main concern about Price is his ability to coach attacking football. 2014 season we averaged 30 points per game. 2019 less than 25 (23 points if you take out the Hull blowout). In 2018 it was 23 points also. I think we mostly agree we don't seem to cause much confusion in the opponents defence when we are in the 20, very one dimensional and heavily reliant on a cross field kick.

I'm not sure where attacking flair is going to come from. I hear that Lee Mitchell is appointed Head of Reserves. A strange appointment to look after the young impressionable talent as this is a player who has never made the grade at Warrington and has achieved very little in the game.

Maybe a naive question but can a 3rd successive pre-season not cover "don't ball steal as there is no material gain on balance"?

Too early to make too many sweeping judgements but it's probably fairly safe to say ....

Salford have had their day in the sun
Agar's magic appears to be working at Leeds
Hull still think big is beautiful and finesse is overrated
Catalans coach isn't wearing new clothes, he is starkers (and clueless)

Neither did Michael McGuire, Tony Smith or Trent Robinson. You don't need a stellar playing career to be a good coach.

Totally agree with you.

Back to the OP, I also thought Leeds were poor but Hull impressive, only one game but they showed three times the attacking flair they had last season, and have, on paper, a very strong starting 17.

Or Sir Alex Ferguson

No of course, but they had to work their way up to the top jobs. You are putting Lee Mitchell and Tony Smith in the same paragraph as if that supports the argument.

We have talked about the poor output of our youth setup for decades. Is Lee Mitchell the man to develop, nurture and inspire the young kids?

I see at Wigan they have Sean O’Loughlin as Under-19s Assistant Coach. 17 years in the Wigan 1st team with 450 games. Ex-England Captain, 4 GF wins as captain, WCC etc etc with Mick Cassidy, ex GB international heading it up.

We have Lee Mitchell.

That's why I said it appeared a strange appointment.

From a brief interview with Lee Mitchell ( WG);

"With the reserves team likely to be made up of available first-teamers that don't make the Super League matchday 17 and academy products, much of the players' training requirements will already be covered. My role will be mostly about managing the team-run and game day," said Mitchell.

So reading between the lines he will be more concerned with tactics on the day than a full coaching role. I suppose it will be a first step to see if he is suited to coaching and can add value. With his role in the community set up I guess Wire see him as a valuable individual that they want to keep involved in the clubs links to the local clubs. RL can ill afford to lose these sort of people. If he does shine as a coach then that will probably be even better.

Possibly an appointment based on merit rather than reputation?