[urlhttps://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/6872595/new-rfl-ceo-ralph-rimmer-believes-talk-of-civil-war-could-be-a-good-thing/amp/?__twitter_impression=true[/url

Very surprising stance.

Ultimately SL could form a breakaway league and change to either drop existing clubs or invite others to join for a bigger league. There would be no promotion and relegation and no franchise needed as no other clubs will get an option to join. A true closed shop. The risk to that is maintaining sponsorship the majority of that being Sky. If Sky transfer their deal to the breakaway league then the SL gets its way anyway and the rest of the RFL will be left in complete poverty. Would anyone truly think Sky wouldn't do that? Legal issues you say? They could claim RFL has broken the contract by not providing access to SL games.

Is it not best to agree the scrapping of the 8s and have straight promotion and relegation and at least have a chance with a small amount of Sky income?

For all his bravado, Rimmer and the RFL have no real option. If the only real options are no promotion and relegation and no money versus a slight chance of promotion and a small amount of money, there is only one real answer for clubs outside the SL.

As a supporter of a club in danger of relegation and things might go pear shaped, the 1 up 1 down option is the ONLY option out of the two.

Of course this belies one crucial element. The intensity and passion in the m8s generated by the need for survival, arguably creates better games than those in the s8s, especially this season with Saints being on fire. Jeopardy creates more controversy and conversation.

Ultimately there will be no civil war. Love it or hate it, SL holds all the cards and Rimmer knows it.

Any 'breakaway' would require SL to set up their own administration etc, all the bread and butter stuff that they clearly don't want to do.

Correct SL holds all the power, and I don't think SKY would be that bothered if they are showing an RFL sanctioned SL or a breakaway SL as long as the viewers still watch. They of course instigated the Premier League's breakaway from the Football League decades ago anyway.

SL currently throw the Championship, Championship 1 and the RFL a few million a year.......more than enough to set up an accounts and HR department.

I can genuinely see SL trying to copy the Super Rugby model, with local clubs feeding "super clubs" and running 2 comps.

As an example, Wakefield, Castleford & Featherstone would all exist seperately in the 2nd tier comp with the stars from each of those clubs assembled into a super club.......the one-eyed flat cappers can moan about "tradition", but their clubs will still exist and if they don't want to watch the "stars"they don't have to, but there's a reason that the Hurricanes attract 16k as an average gate here, whilst the regions that feed them have sides that attract 4 and 5k gates......perception is everything.

The RFL Operational Rules now run to 615 pages. If there was a breakaway, then the newly formed SL would need to create their own version of that. I'm sure it could be simplified and cut down in size, but still a mammoth job that couldn't be done quickly.

I'm not a flat-capper (that's reserved for our friends from Fev) and the last time I looked I had two eyes, but equally there's only one RL team that I'll ever support. 40 years plus, and it's a "tradition" that I'm sticking with. If the game has to change for the "better" then fine, but I wouldn't be attending any games that didn't involve players in the blue'n'white.

The Hurricanes Franchise in Super Rugby encompasses teams from the Eastern, southern and Eastern central provinces. Hawkes Bay, Manawatu and the Wellington region all have their own provincial sides in the second tier comp as well as other sides like Whanganuiin a lower tier playing in what we call the heartland cup.....and then filtering down to club level.
What I was suggesting was something similar......which would mean you could watch Halifax play Featherstone in a 2nd tier competition, that would start as soon as the super one ends.....prior to that, some of the Halifax players might be picked to play for the SUPER team that had Halifax as one of its "feeder" clubs...Possible called the West Yorkshire Wilder-beasts or some other stupid name....and you can choose to attend or not attend.......as I say, 16,500 is the average for the Hurricanes in Super Rugby, 4,500 the average for the Wellington Lions in the same stadium one tier below.......but the revenue from the Hurricanes is divided across their entire catchment area....so whilst you might not want to watch the WYW-B's, if you did, the benefits would filter down to your club.......the choice would be, as it is now, yours to make.

I'd be happy for London Broncos to become a feeder club for the South Eastern Scorpions and I'd go to watch both.....the Broncos because they are my club, but the scorpions because they would be the elite and they'd represent my region......

I'd think that the setup you're suggesting would need rather more mega-bucks to create than the money that we have coming in at the moment. All good in principle, but needs a massive up-front investment to give it a chance of working. What you suggest would need a complete top-to-bottom overhaul of the RL game in the UK, which would come at a significant cost.

The other problem would be that we don't really have "regions" around the UK that we could build this on. Given only two clubs in France and one in Canada, we'd have to say goodbye to them as well.

Keep the ideas coming, but this one isn't one of your best.

I think for the game to go up a notch, this needs to happen. The vision of SL in 1995 has not yet been realised.
Too many clubs, too close to each other congesting the comp is not working anymore. A different type of fan is emerging.
Super or provincial clubs in locations like Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool, London, Cumbria, with established feeder clubs playing in RFL comps would include Salford, Swinton, Leigh, Rochdale, Oldham, St. Helens, Wigan, Hunslet, Workington etc....

So, Wire/St Helens/Widnes to combine as one team called Liverpool, existing teams to play in the second tier. Wigan, Leigh, Salford, Oldham, Rochdale to play as Manchester, existing teams to play in second tier. Trinity, Leeds, Cas, Fev, Batley, Dewsbury, Bradford, Halifax and Huddersfield to play as West Yorkshire. Hull/Hull KR move east to play as Holland. Catalans and London represent larger regions anyway. Boom. Room for expansion.

I genuinely don't think they would be a break away (think its a load of chairman playing my clubs bigger than yours) The sport isn't big enough. While Wigan, Saints, are the big boys of the sport, they're not exactly like manchester utd, Arsenal etc when the premier league broke away. Also arguably the biggest club in Leeds are on the RFL's side.

If there was a breakaway there would be no challenge cup which i think would hurt a few clubs. Yes the crowds aren't great but it still means a great deal to fans and clubs to win it. The same clubs playing each other (with a possibility of loop fixtures to make the season longer) would soon wear off. There is only handful of SL clubs that are actually strong. The rest are all getting poor crowds and could all be replaced. I can't see sky getting excited and paying record amounts to see the same 12 clubs every year, with no chance of any of them being changed, and fixtures including Salford V Widnes in front of 2k fans.

My own view when all the statements and counter statements stop (and i include my own chairman in that) and SL actually produce a solid plan, which they've not done yet, then i personally believe the structure will change after 2019 to a 1up, 1 down, and the lower leagues are guaranteed the same slice of funding they currently get. They've already said they're willing to change the structure. We just need them all to get round a table and thrash out their differences. SL will probably end up with more power too.

Personnally i am in favour of s breakaway. Sick of the small clubs dictatating, and small club fans ranting on about they ate the foundations of the game. They are not, the super league clubs are. Franchise was the way forward but the RFL bottled it by not kicking out under performing clubs.
A breakaway super keague with the best run vlubs in the better stadiums rather than the dilapidated dumps some clubs are allowed to play in. Bring on tje revolution.

4 team league then.

I think it McManus and in particular Lenagan that are trying to force a civil war,all Rimmer has done is state the position as it is now

Possible NRL takeover of SL?

How does that work? Come on RLR, give us some substance rather than just racking up the pointless posts. Nothing even humorous to boot. Boring!

Go on then. Give us your clubs who are going to make up this fantasy league. Remember to use your own criteria though; dilapidated grounds, small clubs, best run clubs, and underperforming clubs.

I’m curious, who actually ‘owns’ rugby league? I assume it is run by a committee of people who then appoint a CEO and board of directors to the RFL.

What is the competence of these people?

I’m no expert on business and the structure of organisations and companies but it seems to me that the businessmen want to get greater control to maximise the revenue streams for SL which in turn would increase the revenue streams for the rest of the sport.

I struggle to see how this is a bad thing.

I'm with you here.
The RFL have steered the ship as well as they could, trying to balance the need for SL and its TV revenues whilst also ensuring that they govern fairly and don't ignore the clubs further down the food chain. The problem is that now the sport is 100% about money and whilst the SKY money helps, the top clubs need to find a further £2,200,000 a year to break even and the clubs that are doing this are finding themselves held back by the clubs that aren't......I am all for a restructure so long as there is still revenue trickling down to the lower division clubs. The only way to ensure this is to negotiate with this break away group......because if they leave and pull up the drawbridge, then the sport will crumble outside of the top flight.

As has been shown in this thread, the idea of "merged" super clubs at the top level with the original clubs still playing at a second level has been rejected with the usual "not in my lifetime.....40 years a fan" claptrap....either we want to remain a vable professional sport or we don't. If we do, then we need to adjust and adapt!

Sky need to up their money or the game stagnates. Players get the majority of the money. Other than entertain, do they offer anything in return? Players wouldn't give a sh*t if the game died or went back to semi-pro, they'll be off to yawnion...

Could you give us a breakdown of how the £4M is being spent by the top clubs, CMg? Please cite "vable" sources and please inculpate as many as possible. Granted, those tea ladies and volunteers don't come cheap!

I have seen the detailed accounts of the then Harlequins RL 2009-2012 and can confirm that 4 million is the minimum required. The HKR chairman was on record a few years back saying he needed 10k averages to ensure he didn't have to make up the 500k shortfall each year on a 3.5 million turn over.
10,000 paying punters at an average of £15 a pop allowing for concessions, kids and season tickets delivers 1.5, the SLY cash delivers 1.8, so you've only then got to find 700k......shirts, beer, food, sponsors etc......

Outgoings are salary cap + marquee player, transport and accommodation, training facilities, backroom and boot room staff, insurance, club vehicles, laundry, equipment....

A reasoned response to Elstones opening statement
Personally it has to be a " no deal is better than a bad deal " option
If we eventually see a raised bridge , then I'd be happy to see a genuine split rather than begging for crumbs

The ' Super Rugby ' option requires as has been suggested , a massive up front investment , probably 3/4 times what SKY currently offer per season
It also requires 2 separate seasons

So it isn't going to happen

There are very few businessmen whose competencies can be spread across massively different industries. An oil trader (taking a non-random example) owning a rugby league club might meet the definition of "successful businessman" but does he know about the business of getting fans through the gates? No.

This is demonstrated in the performance of clubs whose "businessmen" owners have injected themselves into the running of the clubs - Wigan most notably.

The best people to run RL clubs are professional RL or sports administrators, and they don't grow on trees. The most succesful model is the investor sitting behind and letting the administrator come in and run the business (e.g. Leeds) or the investor actually being a sports administrator (e.g. Hull). But some investors just can't help but think they know best and I'm struggling to think of an SL example where it has worked out particularly well in terms of revenue or attendance growth. And then they displace the blame onto the RFL because...