So here we are again. Can someone please explain why the RLIF persist with this policy of not appointing neutral referees for internationals? Anyone? Bowing down the the NRL aside?

I don't think for a moment refs are deliberately dodgy in anyway, but unconscious bias when making split-second decisions is something you simply can't avoid. That game had plenty of examples of decisions tipping the way of Australia and not going for England, and imo it devalues their win and the tournament.

I'm not claiming we would have won with a neutral ref - our execution was poor in crucial positions - but the point is to at least remove all semblance of doubt and put both teams on a truly neutral playing field. In such a tight game, a couple of incorrect calls perhaps unconsciously influenced by a lifetime of supporting Australia in RL, RU, football, cricket, Athletics, singing Australia Fair, etc...will swing it.

A neutral referee might not be the 'best' referee in the world...but at least it's fair.

Sort it out. It taints the entire competition.

agree, particualrly was an issue when we had the aussie ref give a try on field and the English video ref said no try. Correct decision was made, but obstructions in particular can be hard to judge and as you say we shouldent be even questioning the referees neutrality.

I disagree, but understand your logic.
For me it's his job and he will do his best to become the best in the World just like our coaches and players.
I don't think there's anything given or not given on the field unprofessionally.. not even by accident.

In that case, You could almost argue Bennett coached us to lose against his home Country OR didn't put his best effort in to tactically beat them.

We and the Aussies are booth as guilty for not helping to develop neutral referees.
We need to bring over some young French refs and the Aussies need to over some young kiwi refs.

Whilst I agree, I don't think the ref was too bad today. A bigger priority should be introducing two refs in SL, so the international games can be reffed the same as at club level. I also think it'd improve the product on field in SL as well.

We can agree to disagree whether some form of unconscious bias comes into play...although it seems I'll be long dead in my grave when Aaron Woods concedes a knock-on.



I'm not questioning their intent - what I'm really looking for is removal of all doubt.

Social media is full of people questioning why an Aussie ref is officiating Australia, playing in Australia, in a World Cup final. A man who undoubtedly has a lifetime of singing Australia Fair and supporting Australia at whatever they compete in, on the edge of his seat just as we were this morning. It's just plain stupid and for me it devalues their win.

There's a massive doubt.
He was probably singing 'God Save our German Queen' up until 1984.

No way do we need more refs. The game is becoming to sterile. Ref mistakes are part of the game as are player mistakes.

What happened to the Kiwi ref they used in previous comps? Albert should be developing French refs.

It's not about reducing mistakes, it's about improving the play the ball.

For the love of God have neutral refs, it's ridiculous. Can you imagine England football playing a world cup final against Germany, with a German ref?

1. If he was the best ref available, why not? If you accept the premise that a ref is going to be biased towards his home country then where does it stop? Home state/county? Home city/suburb? Do we assume that a ref born in Blacktown (Western Sydney) is incapable of fairly governing a game between Cronulla and Penrith because one is desirable beachside and the other is (relatively lower socio-economic) western suburbs? Do fans from one side want to eliminate a ref from a Hull derby based on which side of the river he lives?

2. It's up to the RLIF to bring more 'neutral' refs into the game.
History has shown that the RFL and NRL do not consider recruiting and mentoring referees from outside their domain to be important - there's one Kiwi in the NRL (and he's barely first grade standard) and are there [iany[/i Welsh/Scots/French in the RFL at all? It's taken 105 years for the Aussies to get a couple of female touchies FFS. If the RLIF don't do it, it won't happen.

I'd tend to agree with this.

Whilst I wouldn't question the integrity of any ref, this is one of those "we really don't help ourselves, do we?" sort of scenarios.

Why is it so difficult to introduce more French officials into Super League, or more New Zealand or South Sea Island officials into the NRL - they must surely exist?

Perhaps there are the same problems with referee shortages in other countries - I wouldn't be surprised.

The problem with this though is that there are probably far too few people wanting to be an RL referee in England or Australia, never mind outside of those.

And to have a referee up to the required standard for a World Cup Final, they would need to be working in the top leagues around the world - and where are the top leagues? England and Australia.

So unless there is ever a time when neither of these two teams are in a final, we are always going to struggle to get the calibre of ref required that isn't from one of these countries.

It also puts the referee in a pretty horrible position.

I agree with the posts suggesting more referees, but who'd want to be a referee.. I'm not sure how players are in Australia, but in our English game.. players are constantly ruining our game finding ways to cheat.

Trapping the arm, dropping the ball when an opposition hand is near by, diving to the floor instead of playing the ball to insinuate they've been slowed down.
We've had players time wasting, booting the ball away, and at the start of last season, delibratly throwing the ball at the opposition player standing in the ruck.
Too many 50/50 calls to use to a players advantage for a ref to get correct, so they are the people the fans usually blame.

I’ve no doubt that any ref will have the honest intention of refereeing objectively and fairly. I don’t see how it is possible not to be biased albeit unintentionally.

An Australian RL ref as a child will have been and still will be an RL fan. He will be a supporter of an NRL club and will be a fan of Australia. It’s inconceivable that those facts will not influence his decision making.

That said we need refs of other nations to be refereeing in SL and the NRL before they can be appointed to international games. That’s up to the administrators of those leagues to increase the diversity of the refs in their respective competitions. Until that happens there’s no chance of neutral refs.

IIRC a few years ago in one of the 4 Nations games, England vs Australia, the proposal was put forward that Thierry Alibert was to be the referee, but the ARL complained that he wasn't experienced enough, and they got Steve Ganson instead.

Hence, even if there is someone "neutral" it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone sees the as most suitable.

Ganson was one of the referees 'coaches', is that why the ref in the final was blinkered for some stuff but open eyed for others?
He did okay but made too many mistakes for supposedly the best ref in the comp and too many calls went their way, forward pass for their try (though marginal others in the competition were being called that were close), high shots ignored all round but the early one on widdop was noticeable by its absence of a penalty considering he then penalised us for a high shot not long after. oh the charge down, I still haven't seen/read an explanation as to why that didn't clear the tackle count. It was far from a shocker but just enough leaning toward them to have an effect IMHO.

The most ridiculous thing about that is the suggestion of England football playing in a World Cup final.

Is it not also conceivable that a non-neutral referee, for the sake of his reputation on a 50/50 or close) call, could err in favour of the team that he is least perceived to have allegiance to?

That aside, think that Phil B is right out of the top drawer and can't recall too many favours being doled out to Leigh, nor should they be expected But we're speaking of an Aussie reffing Oz.

Anyone recall the story of Athers declining to "walk" in a Test Match down under? Accused of being a f***ing cheatin' ****, his reply (in that nasal Manc accent of his) was said to be "When in Rome, dear boy, when in Rome......"

What's happened to the Welsh referee James Jones?
Is he still on the scene?
Not that he's very high up, but if he's still about, he should be encouraged to set his sights as high as he can.

Gave up on it after this season.

I think this year's competition proved that "home" referees are very competent and capable of officiating regardless of who's playing (as do cricket umpires).