(Sorry if this has already been talked about)

So we probably aren't far away from an announcement on venues which will probably come in a month/month and half or so. I've been thinking about venues and was interested to know what other people think. There will probably be 6 venues with one used for the opening day double-header. The last tournament had an average attendance of approx. 20,600 so the average for this years needs to be higher than that really. We already know that one game is in London and one will probably be in Scotland so with this criteria in mind my venues are:

Murrayfield: Opening day double-header (England v Scotland to open followed by Australia v New Zealand (Scotland playing England in Scotland being a bigger attraction for people who don't normally go to league) (Say about 45-48,000 here)

Olympic Stadium: England v Australia (seen as Londoners have had New Zealand there recently) (Get about 45-48,000 here as well)

St James' Park: England v New Zealand (decent attendance for Magic Weekend and starting to get some exposure up there, top-level international perfect way for more exposure) (Reckon could get about 38-40,000 here)

DW Stadium and KC Stadium: don't particularly have a preference for which out of NZ v Scotland or Australia v Scotland are played at which ground. Will probably be slightly under capacity (something like 19-20,000 each game).

Etihad: Lets be more ambitious for the final. Originally thought Elland Road because the other Four Nations finals have been there and 37,000 is a decent capacity but even if we got 40-42,000 at Etihad and it is a bit empty, it is still better than the smaller attendance. Also Manchester is a good central location and easy to get to. (Like is say, about 40-42,000 for the final)

In total, my preferred venues and estimated attendances create a total attendance of 206,000-218,000 and an average of 34,333-36,333. In my opinion this is totally achievable if us greatest and most loyal sports fans in the world get behind the game and our teams!!

1) Double header at Olympic Park to open (NZ v Sco & Eng v Aus)
2) Double header at Newcastle (Aus v Sco & Eng v NZ)
3) Eng v Sco - Headingley/Langtree Park/Halliwell Jones
4) NZ v Aus - Headingley/Langtree Park/Halliwell Jones
5) Final - Manchester Etihad

Standalone games with Scotland, England game aside, won't attract crowds. Newcastle seems to be a target development area, Scotland isn't really so there is not much point in massive investment promoting a 1-off event up there. If England get to the final we should sell out the Etihad, if not it wont look too bad with 40k in (we could go ambitious and try to sell out Old Trafford, but not worth the risk of England failing to get there). Keep the other games at RL stadiums.

Murrayfield's a dreadful ground IMO. Newcastle would get my vote instead. There would also be the benefit of building upon the MW.

Pretty much what i would go with, although i would maybe like to see Wembley instead of Olympic stadium. Realty hope RFL think BIG for this tournament.

Yes got to be Wembley for me as the double header.Try and build on the good crowd from the last four nations over here a few years back

I agree with the OP, double headers except for the New Zealand v Australia fixture. Ii'd push for a London Venue maybe Loftus Road with this one as there's plenty of traveler's from these two nations down in the capital.

England v Scotland take your pick can't see more than 10.000 maybe LSV to pack it out.

Double-headers...



Play the Scotland vs Aus/NZ games in Scotland! Don't shoehorn them onto an England fixture. Complete small-time thinking.

Let's think bigger for a change.
No more Scotland playing their games in Cumbria or that cesspit they've been at recently in the boarders.
No more double-headers or piddly little grounds 'showcasing' our game at it's highest level.
Be bold and market the hell out of it.

Capital Round:
England v Aus - Wembley
Scotland v NZ - Edinburgh

Heartlands Round:
England v Scotland - Wigan
Australia v NZ - Leeds

Expansion Round:
England v NZ - Newcastle
Scotland v Aus - Glasgow

Final - Olympic Stadium

We all know this won't happen. Scotland has no RL fanbase to speak of simple as that, it is no more than an emerging nation as far as our sport goes. Playing NZ and Scotland in a large empty stadia in Edinburgh or Glasgow is going to do the game less favours than packing out a smaller stadium.

Eng v Aus Olympic Stadium
Eng v NZ Etihad
Eng v Sco Headingley

Sco v Aus Tynecastle (Edinburgh)
Sco v NZ Firhill (Glasgow)

Aus v NZ KC Stadium

Final St James Park

Anywhere but the Olympic stadium, awful ground for watching rugby.

Eng v Aus and Scot v NZ. Olympic or Wembley, put it to tender, which ever we can get the best deal on.

Eng v Scotland KC Hull
Aus v NZ DW Wigan

Scot v Aus Workington
Eng v NZ Etihad

Final Etihad

Scotland should not be in four nations full stop.

No domestic game, very little junior develepment, no demand or fan base what so ever.

It should be France only other country with pro league and side in super league.

If France aren't deemed good enough, then it should be GB ( not England) NZ and Austrailia

I agree with all you have said but if France are not good has we know they are not why should they play

Round 1 - Wembley double header
England v Australia
Scotland v New Zealand

Round 2 -
England v Scotland - Huddersfield
Australia v New Zealand - Wigan/Saints

Round 3 - Double header at Newcastle or Man City.
England v New Zealand
Scotland v Australia

Final - Newcastle or Man City

So we know definitely one game (probably a double header) in London, probably Olympic Stadium as Wembley busy with football & NFL. Also at least one in Scotland was said this week. So I'll go-

Sco v NZ & England v Aus at Olympic

Eng v NZ at DW/KC
Sco v Aus at Scotstoun Glasgow

Eng v Sco at DW/KC
NZ v Aus at Headingley

Final- Etihad

I'd love to see Aus v NZ at Headingley but agree they'll most likely chase the ex-pats and have it in London

Brilliant.

Workington and the fantastic Netherdale (pic below), should be put on a black list for hosting International RL

Someone really should have told Scotland before they beat France to qualify.

Couldn't disagree with this.
I can't believe that as some others think that there will be any games in Scotland.

Yep. I just don't see the point of taking big games like these to Scotland. There's no following or interest in the sport there of any note. It'd be a waste in my opinion. I think we have that little money and media exposure we need to focus it where it can do the most good and provide the biggest or best outlay. In my opinion a 10-15k crowd at Huddersfield is preferable to a 3-4K crowd at a small ground in Scotland. We have nothing to build on in Scotland. I firmly believe we have to focus on Wales & France at international level. Of course Scotland are rightly in this years comp but I'd rather the sport take the money from a bigger crowd at a venue in the heartlands rather than take it to Scotland.

Before going to the Olympic Stadium in November I was all for using it for RL games, but sadly it was a rubbish experience. Obviously not helped by one of the worst RL games I've ever seen but still everything else about the stadium just seemed a bit rubbish. Miles away from the pitch with a slightly bizarre huge gap in between the tiers of seating making it appear like the stadium was still being built, along with no no communal areas or toilets above the ground floor just made it all feel a bit poor and unfinished. Maybe I've been somewhat spoiled by Wembley but then I do often stand on the Western Terrace at Headingley so I doubt it.
So we obviously have to get a game in London, so Wembley it is. The other games, Huddersfield seemed a natural one for the Scotland v England game. It's more or less central and has the Danny Brough connection.
For the 3rd game I'd like to see the sport use its big occasions to help clubs that are trying to grow. So St James Park, on top of the Magic Weekend, might help Newcastle out, or Man City might help out Salford. Newcastle & Manchester being 2 areas I think we can make a crack at growing a team with a decent attendance and getting a bit of traction and interest in a major city. Ideally I'd like the RFL to work with these clubs and help get them promoted at these events too.
Obviously it depends on availability but both grounds have seemed fairly willing to host RL before so you'd think we could get an arrangement with them.

For the final I'd go with whichever of Newcastle or Man City wasn't used for Round 3. If Elland Road weren't such a god-awful stadium I'd pick that as it's obviously got the location in the heartlands and got just about the right size, always having to be careful in case England don't get to the final. But it's truly rubbish so I'm tempted to go with Newcastle or Man City despite them probably being a bit too big.

As I and a few people have said though, read the interview with Solly from the other day, he confirmed that the four nations would have a game in London and said that the tournament would take place in England AND Scotland which could actually mean more than one game north of the border. Lets hope not. Other four nations in Europe have had at least one game in the fourth nation so along with what Solly said and past precedent I think it I wishful thinking when people are saying there isn't going to be a game in Scotland.

I'd take the Scotland v Australia game to Cumbria.
They deserve a gig and it has worked there before.

But that's very short-termist thinking isn't it?

There's a very small interest in RL in Scotland - yes, but there always will be if we stick to this attitude. We've seen (dare I say it) how Union have worked to get Italy & Argentina competitive over the years, building from a regular international calendar with fixtures played in those countries against the bigger nations.

There's a Scottish national RL team. Yes, they're mainly full of English heritage players, but they're still representing Scotland and have earned their place in the 4 Nations (and had a fairly decent WC too). We should use this to the sports advantage to take it to new audiences.

IMO, the easy route would be to play the Scotland vs Aus/NZ games in England's RL heartland, in front of a few thousand English RL fans who are there to see the other side.

Or, do we take the two games to Scotland, in the two biggest Scottish cities, in decent stadia (I'm not talking Murrayfield or Hampden, but certainly not a stadium like Netherdale), in front of Scottish people.

If only 4-6k turn up, so what? Those people will most likely be new RL fans watching their first live game, some of who might be inspired to play themselves, tune in to the Sky games, become a coach, take their mates next time etc.

I don't see it as short termist, more prioritisation. I just think there is that little prospect currently of developing sustainable interest in Scotland that we'd be better off simply taking the money from a higher attended game in England.
There's no clubs for anyone to go and watch other than a tiny handful of amateur clubs.
I'm all for attempting to build the game in a nation but I think it has to be a concerted effort that includes developing proper amateur clubs and leagues, semi-pro clubs into League 1 and of course internationals. For years we've hoped that playing the odd international in a region will "spark" growth of the game. It just doesn't, you have to lay the groundwork which doesn't exist in Scotland. That being the case I'd focus our efforts on Wales and France where a bedrock of support and interest does exist and can be built upon.

That doesn't mean we write Scotland off forever, but that we just prioritise the allocation of what tiny amounts of resources and money we have.

Is the difference in revenue likely to be that much? If we go off previous form, tickets will likely be £10/£5.



Again, I'll go back to Union on this one. How many pro-clubs are/were in Scotland, Italy & Argentina? There's already a Scottish National RL side playing Internationals, who were good enough to beat France who have all the infrastructure you mentioned.

One option is to grow organically like you said, grassroots up, but regular International matches is a pretty good way of stoking up that interest and getting the word of RL out there. We talk about 'legacy' a lot in sport, and larger events if used correctly, can leave that 'legacy' on that sports grassroots.



That's the problem. It shouldn't be the 'odd International'. You & I have been amongst the most vocal on here about the need for a structure International calendar - it comes back to that argument. Scotland internationals in Galashiels or Workington do nothing for the game. Regular matches in Edinburgh might.