I know that any thread discussing RU generally descends into bickering on here . This isn't really about the game itself, it's about the strides one RU club has made in the past year, and what (if anything) can our own clubs learn from what they've achieved off the pitch. So, going back six months and Wasps were playing at Adams Park, Wycombe, with an average gate of roughly 6,000-6,500. They made the decision to move to the Ricoh Arena in Coventry, playing their first game in December and buying 50% of the stadium. Their attendances our now around the 16k mark. Financially, according to a recent BBC article, they've gone from second to bottom of the Premiership in terms of revenue generation, to second highest in Europe. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32476299 The article also points to additional sources of revenue generation; a hotel, casino, conferencing facilities, concert venue, restaurants. How have Wasps increased their fan base by so much? Are our clubs not being bold/risky enough with their decisions? Is it just a general apathy towards marketing and PR? The RL club most similar to this model is Leeds. But are the rest of our clubs missing a trick with additional revenue generation? Are our clubs content with just the Sky money and money from their supporters?

I know that any thread discussing RU generally descends into bickering on here . This isn't really about the game itself, it's about the strides one RU club has made in the past year, and what (if anything) can our own clubs learn from what they've achieved off the pitch. So, going back six months and Wasps were playing at Adams Park, Wycombe, with an average gate of roughly 6,000-6,500. They made the decision to move to the Ricoh Arena in Coventry, playing their first game in December and buying 50% of the stadium. Their attendances our now around the 16k mark. Financially, according to a recent BBC article, they've gone from second to bottom of the Premiership in terms of revenue generation, to second highest in Europe. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32476299 The article also points to additional sources of revenue generation; a hotel, casino, conferencing facilities, concert venue, restaurants. How have Wasps increased their fan base by so much? Are our clubs not being bold/risky enough with their decisions? Is it just a general apathy towards marketing and PR? The RL club most similar to this model is Leeds. But are the rest of our clubs missing a trick with additional revenue generation? Are our clubs content with just the Sky money and money from their supporters?

Quote ="Errlee Berd"I know that any thread discussing RU generally descends into bickering on here . This isn't really about the game itself, it's about the strides one RU club has made in the past year, and what (if anything) can our own clubs learn from what they've achieved off the pitch. So, going back six months and Wasps were playing at Adams Park, Wycombe, with an average gate of roughly 6,000-6,500. They made the decision to move to the Ricoh Arena in Coventry, playing their first game in December and buying 50% of the stadium. Their attendances our now around the 16k mark. Financially, according to a recent BBC article, they've gone from second to bottom of the Premiership in terms of revenue generation, to second highest in Europe. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32476299 The article also points to additional sources of revenue generation; a hotel, casino, conferencing facilities, concert venue, restaurants. How have Wasps increased their fan base by so much? Are our clubs not being bold/risky enough with their decisions? Is it just a general apathy towards marketing and PR? The RL club most similar to this model is Leeds. But are the rest of our clubs missing a trick with additional revenue generation? Are our clubs content with just the Sky money and money from their supporters?'" It's more a case of you need money to make money. Wasps bought half of a 34,000 capacity stadium that enabled them to have a hotel, casino, conferencing facilities, concert venue and restaurants. They must have paid an absolute fortune for that, because they would not only be purchasing half of the bricks and motar, but also a few years worth of revenues for those income streams as well. If they didn't exist pre-purchase they had to invest in them to set them up. How many clubs in SL are actually sustainable businesses outside of the SL funding? I'd say probably only Leeds and Warrington currently. None of the other clubs would have access to the capital to fund that kind of setup (Bar Salford who are a shambolic organisation and would lose millions if they attempted such a venture). Warrington have facilities they do very well out of, but neither them or Leeds have room for a casino or hotel so would need to build them.

Quote ="Errlee Berd"I know that any thread discussing RU generally descends into bickering on here . This isn't really about the game itself, it's about the strides one RU club has made in the past year, and what (if anything) can our own clubs learn from what they've achieved off the pitch. So, going back six months and Wasps were playing at Adams Park, Wycombe, with an average gate of roughly 6,000-6,500. They made the decision to move to the Ricoh Arena in Coventry, playing their first game in December and buying 50% of the stadium. Their attendances our now around the 16k mark. Financially, according to a recent BBC article, they've gone from second to bottom of the Premiership in terms of revenue generation, to second highest in Europe. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32476299 The article also points to additional sources of revenue generation; a hotel, casino, conferencing facilities, concert venue, restaurants. How have Wasps increased their fan base by so much? Are our clubs not being bold/risky enough with their decisions? Is it just a general apathy towards marketing and PR? The RL club most similar to this model is Leeds. But are the rest of our clubs missing a trick with additional revenue generation? Are our clubs content with just the Sky money and money from their supporters?'" It's more a case of you need money to make money. Wasps bought half of a 34,000 capacity stadium that enabled them to have a hotel, casino, conferencing facilities, concert venue and restaurants. They must have paid an absolute fortune for that, because they would not only be purchasing half of the bricks and motar, but also a few years worth of revenues for those income streams as well. If they didn't exist pre-purchase they had to invest in them to set them up. How many clubs in SL are actually sustainable businesses outside of the SL funding? I'd say probably only Leeds and Warrington currently. None of the other clubs would have access to the capital to fund that kind of setup (Bar Salford who are a shambolic organisation and would lose millions if they attempted such a venture). Warrington have facilities they do very well out of, but neither them or Leeds have room for a casino or hotel so would need to build them.

There is already a hotel at Headingley (the east stand of the cricket stadium) and it the club does very well out of it (both for hotel occupancy and for conferencing / weddings etc). However, Leeds' circumstances are somewhat different to the other clubs in SL.

The main motivation for Leeds to develop the cricket stadium with the hotel (until they sold it circa 200icon_cool.gif was to retain Headingley's Test venue status. One England test generates about as much in catering and hospitality revenue as a full season of RL (at least, that was the claim floating around). That makes the case for return on investment much more compelling.

Even without the revenue generated by Test cricket, I suspect that the conference and events market in Leeds is somewhat more buoyant that the one in Widnes or Wakefield.

Let's also not forget that there was more than a hint of opportunism from Wasps. At the time Wasps bought themselves into the Ricoh, it was in danger of becoming a huge white elephant; the stadium's primary tenant hadn't played there for more than 12 months and it was losing money hand over fist. We aren't dealing with a local council and a botched S106 here, we're talking about a loss-making venue whose owners were probably more than happy to get whatever they could.

That said, I do agree that we every club needs to be generating more revenue beyond TV and match day income.

Clearly the key thing for clubs is ownership of their stadium and facilities, and ownership of the revenues that are generated from it.

That was the key thing in the business plan when building Langtree Park, and there are now regular events, conferences and weddings in the stadium - which just wasn't possible at Knowsley Road.

Saints also now manage and own all the catering in the stadium, rather than outsourcing it.

Believe it or not, there were plans in place to build a hotel near the HJ, i think it was earmarked for the tesco entrance where the brian bevan statue is currently located(along with the disabled parking).

I don't know whether this was a long term vision, or something that Andy Gatcliffe our former chief egg had as a pipedream, but it would be interesting*.



*Interesting to see which nutjobs would want to sleep in a hotel right next to Warrington's biggest carpark with a view of Longford/Orford.

Plans for a new south stand at hull kr include a hotel to catch the ferry business and the new industries in the area but I would guess raising the capital to build it would be challenging.

Opportunist asset grab by RU, not the first. They have picked up a hell of a lot for very little against what it cost, will be interesting where things are in 5 years

This. It's where many RL clubs falter. It's why I get so annoyed at the often rose-tinted view of the sport 20-30 years ago. It's that time period where clubs decided to not invest in their stadiums and led to the current situation where half the league don't own their stadiums or have suffered with terribly outdated ones for far too long. They were either sold off or allowed to wither away with the money going into the first team instead.

Off the top of my head -

Owned by club:
Leeds
Saints
Warrington
Castleford

Not owned but virtually same as:
Hull KR
Catalans

Not owned:
Wakefield
Hull FC
Huddersfield
Wigan
Salford
Widnes

Now before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, there are obviously variances in how well some clubs do out of their situation. For instance whilst Cas own their ground they struggle to maintain it whilst Wigan do well out of being at the DW. And there are others too.

However, the ideal is to be like a Leeds, Saints or Wire in my opinion (Cas will hopefully get there with their new stadium). Because, despite some clubs doing ok not owning their ground, it still restricts them.
Leeds, Saints or Wire can do what they want with their stadiums and get all the income from it. And, crucially, borrow against it if they need to.
Leeds will be doing the North Stand sometime soon and despite having a couple of million in the bank will obviously need to borrow to fund it. Since Leeds own millions in assets it's not a problem. So can invest to provide higher income in the future, like they did with the Hotel and Carnegie Stand.

That's what we should aim for. Playing in a nicer stadium is fine for the short to medium term but it still restricts you long term.

Got to agree with most of that. Renting is fine to get out of an awful 19th century ground (which is more restricting than renting), but in order to really challenge financially, you need your own ground. Renting at least gives the option needed to build up crowds in a nicer ground without having to maintain it yourself.

I'd love someone to come along and invest in a new ground for Hull in the future, not just for financial reasons but to also get away from that idiot Assem Allam... And I miss terracing!

Article in the The Hull daily mail today, plans to build new stand at the south end with facilitys for further revenue streams, it could be two years before any building starts & dependant on development grants. The plans for the Hotel were dropped as they were unable to secure funding when the resession hit but may be reurected. Good news for us but I doubt it would raise the revenue the wasps ground unless a whole bunch of development in the East of the city brought in other buisiness. But at least the club are trying.

You are always wellcome a few miles East & we have a nice terrace with reasonable priced beer, the team even wins the odd game.

The more you look into where Wasps money comes from, the murkier it gets. The trading company (the rugby club itself) is owned by a holding company in the UK. That UK holding company is then owned by two Maltese parent companies, on which details are scarce.

Wasps have a history of being owned by individuals with a large amount of personal wealth, going back to the likes of Chris Wright (former head of Chrysalis Records and chairman of QPR). The club got a seven figure sum about eight years ago from the sale of its former training pitches and home at Sudbury for development.

So it's not like Wasps have developed their business model, grown organically and had the cash reserves to buy half the Ricoh. Someone, somewhere (probably through the Maltese holding companies) has stumped up the cash for them to make that purchase, probably as a loan.

Casino licenses seem much easier in UK these days. Maybe leagues clubs like Sydney has with casinos/ slot machines attached?

And does penrith (spelling) still have the slot machines and the golf and pony tracking and restaurant and cinema they did when i was last their in 1992 (god thats a long time ago )

Quote ="Andy Gilder"The more you look into where Wasps money comes from, the murkier it gets. The trading company (the rugby club itself) is owned by a holding company in the UK. That UK holding company is then owned by two Maltese parent companies, on which details are scarce. Wasps have a history of being owned by individuals with a large amount of personal wealth, going back to the likes of Chris Wright (former head of Chrysalis Records and chairman of QPR). The club got a seven figure sum about eight years ago from the sale of its former training pitches and home at Sudbury for development. So it's not like Wasps have developed their business model, grown organically and had the cash reserves to buy half the Ricoh. Someone, somewhere (probably through the Maltese holding companies) has stumped up the cash for them to make that purchase, probably as a loan.'" I live and work in Coventry the new home of wasps, they are now trying to raise £25m -£35m by issuing bonds:- www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mark ... hange.html

Quote ="Andy Gilder"The more you look into where Wasps money comes from, the murkier it gets. The trading company (the rugby club itself) is owned by a holding company in the UK. That UK holding company is then owned by two Maltese parent companies, on which details are scarce. Wasps have a history of being owned by individuals with a large amount of personal wealth, going back to the likes of Chris Wright (former head of Chrysalis Records and chairman of QPR). The club got a seven figure sum about eight years ago from the sale of its former training pitches and home at Sudbury for development. So it's not like Wasps have developed their business model, grown organically and had the cash reserves to buy half the Ricoh. Someone, somewhere (probably through the Maltese holding companies) has stumped up the cash for them to make that purchase, probably as a loan.'" I live and work in Coventry the new home of wasps, they are now trying to raise £25m -£35m by issuing bonds:- www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mark ... hange.html

Quote ="pie.warrior"I live and work in Coventry the new home of wasps, they are now trying to raise £25m -£35m by issuing bonds:- www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mark ... hange.html'" Could any RL clubs go down this route to finance new stands/stadiums? Leeds, Cas, Wakie, Hull KR all want to build, why not ask the fans to invest.

Quote ="pie.warrior"I live and work in Coventry the new home of wasps, they are now trying to raise £25m -£35m by issuing bonds:- www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mark ... hange.html'" Could any RL clubs go down this route to finance new stands/stadiums? Leeds, Cas, Wakie, Hull KR all want to build, why not ask the fans to invest.

Yeah, maybe we could rent it just like you guys...

San Francisco built its new $1.2billion stadium financed by fans alone! www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... mvxbb.html

San Francisco built its new $1.2billion stadium financed by fans alone! www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... mvxbb.html

The proposed new Wakefield stadium, which I acknowledge has now hit the buffers, was to have had a restaurant, hotel, the largest conferencing facility in Yorkshire and commercial sports facilities like 5-aside 3Gs for rent as well as the hospitality etc that would be in the stadium.

Such a shame that it's been the subject of some very shady highway robbery tactics by those trusted to deliver it.

Be interesting to know how many fans from their old bases go and watch in Cov. And what the ticket pricing is like. And how much damage it has done to Coventry RU

I agree but the problem for Wakey would have been that they were only tenants not owners. So they wouldn't get the revenue from that.

if Wasps can do this, Why couldn't the RFL?

Why couldn't the game build a 20k stadium with a casino, hotel, conference centre, etc, in say Wakefield, and have both clubs rent it, providing 2 clubs with facilities and making the game money?

Is it only because people would complain of favouritism?

Him,

From what I'm told, have read and I'm lead to believe the
Wakefield Stadium Trust were to be handed the stadium to run with the profits going to the Rugby League team

If the RFL were to build such a complex it would have to have a larger stadium or it wouldn't work. The sports major events with the exception of The Challenge Cup and Grand Final would have to be played there.

CC semi finals
Magic weekend
Major Play Off Games
Internationals
Your and Junior Internationals

What you'd be creating is a smaller version of Twickenham

Huddersfield Giants have a 20% stake on the Stadium, so do own a part of it !