I have lurked about RL boards for a few years, read evey comment, but only recently started to post.

Grew up in N Ireland, mum worked in tesco, dad a prison officer, lived in a council house, passed my 11+, went to a grammar school which was big on rugby. Indeed a Irish international was in my class,! Fast forward 20 years I live in Manchester, actually last 3 in Salford.

Until I bought a house in Salford I really had no idea about RL, didn't understand it until 2 years ago I met a girl from Wigan, who took the time to explain the difference and eg what RL scrums where all about! I enjoyed a faster moving, in some ways simpler game. Far better as a spectator than RU, so why ( when I live 1 mile from AJ Bell) did I decide to buy a season ticket for Sale rather than a cheaper one for Salford Devils?

Simply put it is the fans! I am a council house boy who did good, but if I buy a padded seat for Salford I am looked down upon, indeed Salford CEO called people who like RU as posh. I am not posh, just lucky enough to have done all right and resent being labeled that way! RL is a better game and needs to attract people like me who sponsors like RBS\Avvia ( the RU schools cup in NI is sponsored by Danaske bank) want to target! Sadly while people like me are made feel unwelcome RL will get sponsors like Foxy Bingo and a small utility company rated by Which as 2nd from bottom for customer service.

Blame the RFL, BBC, media all you want, perhaps the problem is closer to home......

Edit: when I get the chance I will buy tickets to see RL teams that are close as I enjoy the game, but that is when I am a bothered on a night either Salford\ Leigh\ Warrington are at home.

In what way are you looked down upon?

No offence Kiyan, but your post makes no sense.

I'm confused - is this a rugby league issue, is it a "class" issue or is it just a social issue?

A lot of RL fans think our rugby league is one of the best sports to watch but what they grossly underestimate is its status as a global business sport.
Marketing, sponsors and media presence is probably "rock bottom" compared to football, union , cricket etc. League is not an attractive proposition to plough monies into because of its status, the gap will never be bridged between Union and League.
Maybe a lot of fans won't accept this and resort to a blinkered viewpoint.

So, we should stop all of our "unwelcoming" lower class fans from entering the stadium, so the "council house boy who did good" can enjoy the game in peace with his own kind and only then would we attract a higher class of investor/sponsor/advertiser. Kiyan sounds both a "snob" (in the very literal sense) and a troll/WUM to me.

Didn't understand a word of that and not sure what point you're trying to make.

Firstly, welcome to the forum. If you stick around you will enter the environment of "flat cappers" and inverse snobbery that constitutes a sizeable proportion of rlfans posters' world. Of course the failure of Rugby League to expand or improve its media profile cannot be due to anything you might suggest, you should be aware it is a conspiracy between the BBC, RFU, and the powers that be. In fact it's just not fair!
This is a great pity because Rugby League is usually a much better spectator sport than Rugby Union. But the negative attitude drives many people away, I'm afraid, including me.

None of the above. It's a Kiyan issue.

Rubbish.
I'm a privately educated university graduate. I have never, ever felt that this makes me unwelcome in an RL ground (who would know anyway?)
Though if I tried to buy a "padded seat" at Cas, I'd be told to bring a cushion.

Do you admit to your new 'good' friends that you are from a council estate?

I bet you wear pullovers over your shoulders with the sleeves tied in a knot at the front.

Ooh ooh do you go abroad on holiday? Not Spain or Mexico or ought common like that but to really posh places like the Maldives?

he is right. RL isn't a particularly welcoming game, it does treat strangers with suspicion. There is a large proportion of fans in the game who think if you didn't watch Widnes v Fax in 1902 in -20 weather from the side of a field with no protection from the elements and the 6 metres of snow that fell that day, you don't deserve a voice or you aren't a real fan. We denigrate other sports and the people who watch them, we denigrate those who maybe aren't prepared to make their whole life about RL, but would be interested in watching a game every so often.

The vast majority of people aren't going to pass these 'realness' tests we put on them. hundreds of thousands will watch on sky that a few thousand will attend. Most people aren't just mindlessly handing over money to a club they feel obliged to. In this country Most people who watch the FIFA world cup don't watch Premier League, football claims them as football fans. The fans and the sport claims them as 'one of us'. More people watched the RL World Cup than watch SL. We claimed none of them. We expect people to want to watch all RL from everywhere when in reality most people just want to go to 2 or 3 games a year and some of the bigger events and sit down on a Friday night with a few cans and watch the game on sky. One person doing that is possibly £500 a year for us, if its a family with two kids its probably closer to £1800. That's not only a lot of money for us to be looking down on, its a fan. By any measure that is a pretty committed RL fan

I just don't see how you'd encounter that attitude at games though. On here, on Twitter etc maybe but at games? I have no idea how rich/well paid/educated etc the person stood or sat next to me at a game is.

How would people at a game know the OP is "posh" and why would they say something if they don't know him?

The OP's post does smack a little of having a snobbish attitude too.

Now don't get me wrong, clubs are incredibly poor at encouraging anyone to come along to games or be involved with the club or the sport and especially people from richer, more affluent backgrounds. That's at least partly due to historical reasons (the sport grew up in working class areas that are still working class areas) and partly due to facilities needing upgrading.
Unfortunately there aren't many clubs who can go down the route of actively attracting the "richer" customer because they're based in relatively poor areas with a support base that is relatively poor.

For instance Castleford can't sacrifice their support base in order to chase the more wealthy. They need to be affordable to locals/families etc.

The likes of Leeds, Wigan, Warrington and Salford in the future might be able to to a degree but it's still not easy.

And regardless, I still don't see the attitude being portrayed by the OP being aimed personally at anyone at games.

I don't think other RL Fans can be blamed for it though. Which is what he's saying, RLfans were unwelcoming because he's "done good" for himself, what? When I landed an extremely well paid job, all my chums and my relatives from up North were absolutely chuffed. One of their own getting on and doing well.

Besides didn't he already say he was a Sale regular? Went to school where Union was taught, with an International no less, sponsorship for schools cups was dropped in for good measure, the guys a troll, if he isn't why did a Pie, indeed a female Pie, have to explain our game to him, how well could he possibly have done being that dim???? He's a wum!

I'm 99% certain he is!
It's just some seemed to be taking him seriously!

What on earth are you talking about. Everyone's welcome at games, i've never seen anything happen in 30 odd years that would say otherwise.

I think it's less an issue of taking him seriously than knowing what on earth he's actually talking about.

He's been on the Salford forum suggesting we need to forget the idea of being a community club and embrace becoming a corporate behemoth of some sorts. Apparently, it's people like him paying £30 upwards for a seat and buying three pints in the ground that keep the club viable, not the 2,000 who've been turning up week in, week out throughout the club's recent turmoil. He also had a dig at people who suggested the CC tie against Leigh should be £15, when he's also complained in the past about paying £20 for the Alan Henning memorial game against Swinton...

Ignore the fact that buying three pints puts money into the outside catering company/SMC, not Salford RLFC, too...

Not going into the class issue (I'm well posh and never have had a problem at matches), certainly reading these boards for as long as I have, RL fans, despite claiming to watch [ithe greatest game[/i , seem almost determined not to enjoy it more than they have to.

If you work then you are more than welcome to attend games. However the unemployed shall be forever shunned and remain as outcasts on the terraces.

On a more serious note, most people attending games go with their mates/family and tend to just socialize within their own clique. I know of several people who go to rugby matches on their own or don't bother at all because they've got no one to stand with. More effort needs to be made to reach out to these lonely fans.

Spot the RU troll.

Good point well made




Agree with that. I don't know whether it's just a symptom of modern society but it does almost seem to be a badge of honour amongst many RL fans to be a miserable sod. It's as if they constantly need something to be outraged about. You only need to see the amount of people describing the RFL as corrupt whenever their team loses. Or the bizarre illness that seems to infect many RL fans whereby they must, on no account, acknowledge the quality and skill of current players because they're all a bunch of wimps who should be working on a building site during the week and aren't a patch on players from 20/30+ years ago.
You have Leeds fans complaining about the first half performance vs Hull. Whilst ignoring the 2nd half.

I find it utterly strange. I go to the rugby to enjoy it. Do I get frustrated at the ref sometimes? Of course, that's human nature. But not to the extent some people take it, or the apparent glee with which some fans actively slag off modern players.

Like you say, it's as if some people are determined not to enjoy it.

You have some fair points, I may be unusual as I watch the game at HKR as my first choice but avidly watch 10 games a week on TV go & watch local amature games even FC but I am a league fan first HKR second. Most of the people I stand with at Craven park come in groups & on the whole welcoming. What I will say is that & I might be in a minority but I won't take my grand kids there & my wife won't come as the Language is appalling. I don't care if other people bring their kids & think it is OK I don't & as I have lived in the west country & attended union games (20 odd years ago) I know they would not entertain some of the language I hear at games now.

This guy understands internet messageboards.

An incendiary opening post then nothing, leaving a trail of riled posters having arguments amongst themselves in his wake. Classic trolling. Well played Sir.

You could be well be right. Still though, in his/her favour, Northern Ireland isn't that well known for producing bigots is it?
That's not to say he/she is bigoted against RL but it does seem that way.