Ok at one point reading this I really did not care. But I'm going to join in anyway.

If I go to a shop and buy a melon (not indicating anyone here is a melon)
Then the shop assistant tells me it's buy one get one free.
I have attended the shop once, I have bought 2 melons.
The shop is not going to say it sold only 1 melon, because that would ruin it's stock control. It's not going to say I only got half of each melon as it would still only make one melon.

It really depends what you want to count. For example, lets say the total attendance at Warrington was made up entirely of the same people who attended at Cardiff, would we say that it only counts as one attendance, because they also went to another match that weekend?

Effectively the 2nd Cardiff game can be treated as a BOGOFF. When people are talking about what is fair, well fair to whom?? When comparing with other sports, they do the same so it's fair. When compared to other RLWC's it's not fair as they did not have double headers.

In effect the double headers are something of a new thing and so make it hard to compare one event with another. So you can use any method, if you are comparing to other WC's then my guess would be that the fairest method is to treat it as one event. Total attendances at world cup events/How many world cup events there are.

Discussions of games attended are only relevent if you can buy for each game. Obviously we can't so you can't do an average per game, it has to be an average per event, when comparing with previous years.

All that matters is getting the most useful figure (as in, the one that gives the best idea of where we're at in terms of success). Taking things to extremes for the sake of analogy, if we crammed 10 games into one day and sold 10k tickets for that day, it wouldn't do much good to say "wow, 100,000 people attended" - we'd be kidding ourselves.

Everyone moaning about it being just one attendance for the double header is fooling themselves too.

If i paid £99 for my ticket to Cardiff, i paid £44.50 to see England Vs. Australia and £44.50 to see Wales Vs. Italy, the fact is, i've paid for two games, and i should be counted for both.

The magnificent attempt by the 45,000 fans to make if to Cardiff should be praised, and not moaned at. Well done everyone, you've done RL proud, the Final is nearly/is sold out and extra blocks open at Wembley.

What everyone who's putting the sport down is failing to see is...

Warrington, Avingnon, Huddersfield, the final, and no doubt more games will sell out including Perpignan very very soon, and for sales which were selling modestly well just a few weeks ago, you really can't knock the fans for their amazing support...

It's like some of you would rather there be 600 people there so they could be smug about the sport declining!

If we had 10 games, and 10k people attended each of them and we said our average attendance for those 10 games was anything other than 10k we would not only be idiots but liars as well

If you only wanted to watch the England match then you had to buy a ticket for the Wales match and vice versa so really there were 45000 tickets sold to each game even though there weren't 90000 people there because they're the same 45000 people. There were still 45000 sold for each game though so that is the figure you should count.

But you can't pay for one game as you didn't have that option.

It's like counting 30,000 on every game of the Magic Weekend on one day and claiming 90,000 as an aggregate. It wouldn't be true. You don't have the option of being at one game only, so you can't count them twice. It wouldn't give a true indication of the attendance.

I'm certainly not moaning about it being a double header. The attendance was fine, at least from where the international sport is coming from at the moment. Counting the attendance as 90k would be misleading though - there's no need to do it. It was what it was - 45k watching a double header. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Get past the double-counting arguments by just saying that the number that's ultimately of interest is the bums-on-seats revenue per game played, or total ticket revenue for the tournament, measuring the same thing essentially.

you would have passed through the turnstiles 13 times in and 13 times out.....the Cardiff attendance entered once and left once...you attended 13 times, they attended once.


Actually....a quick glance at the crowd for the 2nd half of the Wales v Italy match would suggest a fair few disappeared





I have no issues with fudged numbers.....but the IRLF only counted the 2011 Wembley match attendance once in their average, so regardless of the straw clutching going on, Cardiff should and will be counted once when calculating the average/mean attendances for this RLWC... [urlhttp://www.mathsisfun.com/mean.html[/url.

By the way, pointing the finger at someone else and saying "they did it too" is not a valid defence

Actually it is a valid defense.

It's called case law.

But regardless I'm bored, this thread is the only thread in the world discussing it and really only 10-12 people on the planet give a hoot.

The WC is up and running and so far so good.

I'm quite relaxed about the numbers, especially with the games being so good, no -one is crowd watching.

Quote ="gutterfax"you would have passed through the turnstiles 13 times in and 13 times out.....the Cardiff attendance entered once and left once...you attended 13 times, they attended once. Actually....a quick glance at the crowd for the 2nd half of the Wales v Italy match would suggest a fair few disappeared I have no issues with fudged numbers.....but the IRLF only counted the 2011 Wembley match attendance once in their average, so regardless of the straw clutching going on, Cardiff should and will be counted once when calculating the average/mean attendances for this RLWC... [urlhttp://www.mathsisfun.com/mean.html[/url. By the way, pointing the finger at someone else and saying "they did it too" is not a valid defence '" You'd best get emailing the SL clubs to tell them they've done it incorrectly: www.hullfc.com/first-team/match/ ... vers-22-16 And the RFL: www.therfl.co.uk/report?7352 www.therfl.co.uk/report?7353 And your mates over in RU: www.premiershiprugby.com/stats/attendance.php www.premiershiprugby.com/matchce ... ?section=2 www.premiershiprugby.com/matchce ... ?section=2

Quote ="gutterfax"you would have passed through the turnstiles 13 times in and 13 times out.....the Cardiff attendance entered once and left once...you attended 13 times, they attended once. Actually....a quick glance at the crowd for the 2nd half of the Wales v Italy match would suggest a fair few disappeared I have no issues with fudged numbers.....but the IRLF only counted the 2011 Wembley match attendance once in their average, so regardless of the straw clutching going on, Cardiff should and will be counted once when calculating the average/mean attendances for this RLWC... [urlhttp://www.mathsisfun.com/mean.html[/url. By the way, pointing the finger at someone else and saying "they did it too" is not a valid defence '" You'd best get emailing the SL clubs to tell them they've done it incorrectly: www.hullfc.com/first-team/match/ ... vers-22-16 And the RFL: www.therfl.co.uk/report?7352 www.therfl.co.uk/report?7353 And your mates over in RU: www.premiershiprugby.com/stats/attendance.php www.premiershiprugby.com/matchce ... ?section=2 www.premiershiprugby.com/matchce ... ?section=2

Quote ="Errlee Berd"You'd best get emailing the SL clubs to tell them they've done it incorrectly: www.hullfc.com/first-team/match/ ... vers-22-16 And the RFL: www.therfl.co.uk/report?7352 www.therfl.co.uk/report?7353 And your mates over in RU: www.premiershiprugby.com/stats/attendance.php www.premiershiprugby.com/matchce ... ?section=2 www.premiershiprugby.com/matchce ... ?section=2'" It's an endless debate that is going nowhere because you fail to accept that the average attendance at an event is arrived at by counting the actual total number of attendees and dividing it by the actual number of games....regardless of the spin used by the RFL, RFU or anyone else, the basics of mathematics point to the figure to date being about 17k. The failure to grasp basic mathematics is alarmingly rife on here. Rochdale looks pretty full tonight...Ireland are going to get pasted by the looks of it.

Quote ="Errlee Berd"You'd best get emailing the SL clubs to tell them they've done it incorrectly: www.hullfc.com/first-team/match/ ... vers-22-16 And the RFL: www.therfl.co.uk/report?7352 www.therfl.co.uk/report?7353 And your mates over in RU: www.premiershiprugby.com/stats/attendance.php www.premiershiprugby.com/matchce ... ?section=2 www.premiershiprugby.com/matchce ... ?section=2'" It's an endless debate that is going nowhere because you fail to accept that the average attendance at an event is arrived at by counting the actual total number of attendees and dividing it by the actual number of games....regardless of the spin used by the RFL, RFU or anyone else, the basics of mathematics point to the figure to date being about 17k. The failure to grasp basic mathematics is alarmingly rife on here. Rochdale looks pretty full tonight...Ireland are going to get pasted by the looks of it.

This is boring

the person not counting the number of attendees and dividing it by the number of games is you. For some reason you have chosen to either halve the number of attendees to two matches or pretend that one match had no attendees.

The 17k figure you are talking about doesn't refer to anything. Even at stretch there is logic in counting a double header as one event with one 45k attendance. Even it is wrong

There is no logic whatsoever in counting it as 2 matches with 2 22.5k attendances. Even those not familiar with the basic maths you feel so confident about would know only a moron or a troll would simply make up a figure

same thread keeps getting ruined from the same people... Enjoy the world cup great games, good atmosphere and generally a positive tournament.

England games should all sell out....they may have to work hard for the Quarter final crowd at the DW with it being France in all probability, but I reckon Wembley will sell out.
If Wales manage to get a game v the Aussies in Wrexham, that'll sell out too.

If I were in England, Italy v Kiwis in the Quarter Final at Headingly would be a must see game and it's looking like Samoa v Fiji in the last QF...That'll sell out and be a WAR!

75,370 aggregate attendance over 5 games so far.

Your figures are wrong.

Really?
45,052 [urlhttp://www.sportinglife.com/rugby-league/live/match-report/36383/aussies-beat-battling-england[/url AND [urlhttp://www.sportinglife.com/rugby-league/live/match-report/39671/italy-claim-wales-scalp[/url
7,481 [urlhttp://www.rlwc2013.com/rugby-league-world-news/article/1235/france-hold-on-to-deny[/url
13,965* [urlhttp://www.rlwc2013.com/rugby-league-world-news/article/1237/kiwis-keep-their-cool-to[/url
8,872 [urlhttp://www.sportinglife.com/rugby-league/live/match-report/36386/fiji-v-ireland[/url

*I have seen the attendance at the HJ for the Kiwis and Samoa reported as 14,965 but am happy to use the figure reported on the official RLWC 2013 web site.....

75,370 people have attended 5 games so far. Because I choose to ignore your insane and inane ramblings about counting 45,052 TWICE, it doesn't change the fact that 75,370, going on the widely reported attendances, is the total number of people who have attended games so far.
The laws of mathematics state that to find an average, you add the numbers up and divide by the number of games.....15,074 is therefore the average attendance.

You have only listed 4 attendances.

You have only listed 4 attendances. It really would be insane ramblings to list 4 attendances as 5 games.

You are correct, the law of mathematics insist to find an average we add the number of attendances by the number of games.

You have already told us you have divided by 5 games, this necessitates that you have 5 attendances. Perhaps you could provide us with those 5 attendances?

I agree that the Quarter Finals are shaping up for some big crowds as things stand, and they are the one part of the tournament where ticket pre-sales are understandably low.

If England put in good displays against Ireland & Fiji I can see a good crowd at the DW though, its if they just limp through where it may put fans off.

What I initially said before you baited your hook was 75,370 fans had attended the 5 games so far. Regardless of how much you want to believe that there were 90,000 people at Cardiff, there weren't....The same 45,052 watched both games and therefore are only counted once when defining the average attendance for the tournament. Ticket sales are what determine the recorded attendances.....45,052 people bought 1 ticket each.

Insecurity and desperation are rife amongst certain cliques of Rugby League stalwarts........it's quite embarrassing really that you cling to a few extra fans in the hope that the 30,000 empty seats will be forgotten.



Here's some light reading for you....
[urlhttp://www.gillette4nations.co.uk/4-nations-news/article/726/wood-hails-successful-four-nations[/url
12,491
10,377
42,344
23,447
5,233
34,174

Grand aggregate total of 128,066.......

according to Knock down Nigel...


Now, given there are only 6 attendances above, but 7 games, how come Wood didn't declare "over 170,000 and include the crowd for Wembley twice?

Could it be perchance because he's not as stupid as I think maybe he is and know you are?

HOW F*****G HARD IS IT for both gutterfax and SmokeyTA to understand?!

1. The average attendance should be calculated for the 5 games that there have been so far, with a 45k attendance for each of the Cardiff games.

2. The aggregate attendance for the tournament should count the total crowd for the 4 events that there have been so far, counting the 45k once.

They're two separate things and really not that hard to deal with seperately.

Oh, and:

3. We're all getting REALLY fed up of the petty irrelevant sniping from both of you, do it over PM if you must.

Rant over

I know people have taken you to task over this and they are right.

Given that you state the total attendances is 75,370 totalling 4 games (as you will not allow the Wales game as a further attendance, you must therefore leave that out in that case for averaging purposes). The average is therefore 75,370 / 4 = 18,842.
Simples.

Actually, you work out an average attendance by taking the total number of people who have attended games and you divide it by the total number of games attended to discover the average.
FACT.....75,370 people have attended 4 events, but 5 games and therefore, the individual attendance average is 15,074.

Using your flawed formula for counting Double header attendances twice means that Sally Bolton's RLWC Target of 500,000 was 66% based on 2 events and 4 games



I am so looking forward to seeing 180,000 people packed into a 90,000 seat stadium for the semi-finals



Why is it that some RL fans are so insecure and fretful that they cling to the "double header" like a security blanket?....the 5 games so far have all been entertaining and pretty well attended....

As for your rant Little Ivor.



Chillax Brother....and enjoy the games