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It seems that our poor relations in the other oval ball game are making a mess of trying to contrive the top flight.
Although they have promotion and relegation, at the end of each season they usually find a way of not relegating the bottom team or ,usually finding
a reason that their second tier champions are not worthy to be promoted.
This season they decided that London Welsh didn't meet the minimum standards and refused to allow them to be promoted.
However following appeal, they are now "worthy" of promotion and their ground has been passed as meeting the minimum standards.
Sport used to be about the best team prospering but now the main "sport" takes place away form the field of play and competition is agreed in an office
at HQ or in the courtroom.
In this case there may well be an appeal against the appeal but it more and more seems that winning counts for nothing.
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| Club Owner | 14306 | No
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"It seems that our poor relations in the other oval ball game are making a mess of trying to contrive the top flight.
Although they have promotion and relegation, at the end of each season they usually find a way of not relegating the bottom team or ,usually finding
a reason that their second tier champions are not worthy to be promoted.
This season they decided that London Welsh didn't meet the minimum standards and refused to allow them to be promoted.
However following appeal, they are now "worthy" of promotion and their ground has been passed as meeting the minimum standards.
Sport used to be about the best team prospering but now the main "sport" takes place away form the field of play and competition is agreed in an office
at HQ or in the courtroom.
In this case there may well be an appeal against the appeal but it more and more seems that winning counts for nothing.'"
Erm the RFL did this for many a year to keep Shuddersfield in the top flight. Wonder how Keighley felt at the time? |
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| Club Owner | 10000 | No
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| Feb 2004 | 21 years | |
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"It seems that our poor relations in the other oval ball game are making a mess of trying to contrive the top flight.
Although they have promotion and relegation, at the end of each season they usually find a way of not relegating the bottom team or ,usually finding
a reason that their second tier champions are not worthy to be promoted.
This season they decided that London Welsh didn't meet the minimum standards and refused to allow them to be promoted.
However following appeal, they are now "worthy" of promotion and their ground has been passed as meeting the minimum standards.
Sport used to be about the best team prospering but now the main "sport" takes place away form the field of play and competition is agreed in an office
at HQ or in the courtroom.
In this case there may well be an appeal against the appeal but it more and more seems that winning counts for nothing.'"
We're talking "professional" sport. It's not just about winning, it's about adding to the competition.
This is people's livelihoods here. It works both ways. Denying a club that's not fit for purpose may deny people their moment in the Sun, but including them and downgrading the competition because of it affects the competition as a whole.
There are standards for a reason. If it was only about sport, we wouldn't need to pay players. |
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| International Board Member | 1707 | No
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| May 2003 | 22 years | |
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And of course it wouldn't happen in any other sport would it. Football has set standards. Stevenage and Scarborough two examples of teams refused promotion to the 4th division. some teams refused entry to FA cup if their ground doesn't meet minimum standards.
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US sports administrators would think we are all nuts. This romantic ideal of promotion and relegation based purely on performance on the pitch is as stupid as militant amateurism.
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| Mar 2004 | 21 years | |
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| Quote ="Tre Cool"US sports administrators would think we are all nuts. This romantic ideal of promotion and relegation based purely on performance on the pitch is as stupid as militant amateurism.'"
Then SL is set , and will not change, or should not change |
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| Dec 2004 | 20 years | |
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| Quote ="Starbug"Then SL is set , and will not change, or should not change'"
Its not perfect, but automatic relegation is worse. |
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| Oct 2009 | 15 years | |
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| Quote ="Tre Cool"US sports administrators would think we are all nuts. [u[uThis romantic ideal of promotion and relegation based purely on performance on the pitch[/u[/u is as stupid as militant amateurism.'"
The Usual bull from folk like |
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| Club Owner | 33944 | No
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| Mar 2004 | 21 years | |
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| Quote ="Tre Cool"Its not perfect, but automatic relegation is worse.'"
Correct, the promotion bit isnt the problem , the relegation bit isnt the problem for any club just promoted, its the long standing ' protected ' clubs that are the problem |
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| International Star | 17983 | No
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| Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
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| Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
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| Quote '" Quote ="Wellsy13"We're talking "professional" sport. It's not just about winning, it's about adding to the competition.
This is people's livelihoods here. It works both ways. Denying a club that's not fit for purpose may deny people their moment in the Sun, but including them and downgrading the competition because of it affects the competition as a whole.
Quote There are standards for a reason. If it was only about sport, we wouldn't need to pay players.'" '"
I know there are standards for a reason, but it does seem in this case that the standards had been met and that it was the governing body trying to manipulate the make up of the top flight.
Regarding the peoples livlihoods, at least the players involved had the chance to directly affect their own futures, this is not the case for most ordinary folk ! |
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| Player Coach | 2143 | No
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| Dec 2006 | 18 years | |
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| Quote ="Tre Cool"US sports administrators would think we are all nuts. This romantic ideal of promotion and relegation based purely on performance on the pitch is as stupid as militant amateurism.'"
Yes all their "world series" games are against "American" teams.  |
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| International Board Member | 16601 | No
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| Aug 2002 | 22 years | |
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I never had a problem with ground minimum standards as a promotion condition, but the RFL changed them to suit Cas's lack of seats. Deep down Dewsbury and Hunslet knew they couldn't get in before the season started - which is when the decision should be made ie before the event.
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 17983 | No
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
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| Quote ="maurice"I never had a problem with ground minimum standards as a promotion condition, but the RFL changed them to suit Cas's lack of seats. Deep down Dewsbury and Hunslet knew they couldn't get in before the season started - which is when the decision should be made ie before the event.'"
I think its this sort of thin that annoys the average punter.
If the clubs dont meet the minimum standards to allow promotion, then this should be made public as far in advance as is reasonable.
This would remove any doubt surrounding perceived preference and stop the cynics amongst us from crying "fix" etc.
There is no problem with setting a benchmark, but the goalposts shouldn't then be moved to accommodate certain clubs or moved in the
opposite direction to preclude others.
The "romantic" view would be that regardless of facilities and numbers of seats etc, promotion should be based on sporting performance.
Back in the real world all that is needed is transparency without any hidden agenda. |
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| Club Owner | 33944 | No
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| Mar 2004 | 21 years | |
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| Whatever happened to that shiney new stadium Celtic Crusaders were having built ? |
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| Club Owner | 33944 | No
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| Mar 2004 | 21 years | |
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| Quote ="maurice"I never had a problem with ground minimum standards as a promotion condition,=#FF0000 but the RFL changed them to suit Cas's lack of seats. Deep down Dewsbury and Hunslet knew they couldn't get in before the season started - which is when the decision should be made ie before the event.'"
Oh dear , 
tb , [size=150tb[/size , he's over here  |
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| Club Coach | 6035 | No
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| Dec 2004 | 20 years | |
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| Dec 2018 | Dec 2018 | LINK |
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| Club Owner | 20966 | No
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| Club Owner | 33944 | No
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| Quote ="gutterfax"I think you'll find a few Canadians who may beg to differ on that......'"
I didnt know the Canadians played ' Rounders ' ? |
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| International Star | 21 | No
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| Aug 2010 | 14 years | |
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| Dec 2012 | Dec 2012 | LINK |
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Quote ="Tre Cool"Do you know why its called the world series?'"
Not because it was sponsored by a newspaper called The World, if that's what you're angling for.
Heres the explanation... www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/wsmenu.shtml
[iIn 1884, the Providence Grays of the National League outplayed the New York Metropolitan Club of the American Association in a three game series for what was originally called "The Championship of the United States." Several newspapers penned the Grays as "World Champions" and the new title stuck.[/i
Translation: We're the of the world, so our teams are world champions.
The American model is all about extracting money for the owners. Its awful if you want to grow the game. There is a good reason American football has no other professional sports league outside of the US. The owners only care about enriching themselves. When they started losing a bit of money on NFL Europa, they pulled the plug straight away. The franchise isn't the ideal model, though I don't think that P&R is the magic pill for Super League. P&R only really works well if you're the most popular sport.
By the way, PLENTY of American sports team's hemorrhage money. Last year 15 teams in the NBA posted an operating income in the minus. There are 30 teams. NHL was worse with 18 teams posting an operating income in the minus. The difference with a lot of these other sports league is that their revenues are so much higher than SL that it makes investing more attractive.
Both P&R and franchise have their pros and cons. Neither are the right solution. |
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Quote ="Tre Cool"Do you know why its called the world series?'"
Not because it was sponsored by a newspaper called The World, if that's what you're angling for.
Heres the explanation... www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/wsmenu.shtml
[iIn 1884, the Providence Grays of the National League outplayed the New York Metropolitan Club of the American Association in a three game series for what was originally called "The Championship of the United States." Several newspapers penned the Grays as "World Champions" and the new title stuck.[/i
Translation: We're the of the world, so our teams are world champions.
The American model is all about extracting money for the owners. Its awful if you want to grow the game. There is a good reason American football has no other professional sports league outside of the US. The owners only care about enriching themselves. When they started losing a bit of money on NFL Europa, they pulled the plug straight away. The franchise isn't the ideal model, though I don't think that P&R is the magic pill for Super League. P&R only really works well if you're the most popular sport.
By the way, PLENTY of American sports team's hemorrhage money. Last year 15 teams in the NBA posted an operating income in the minus. There are 30 teams. NHL was worse with 18 teams posting an operating income in the minus. The difference with a lot of these other sports league is that their revenues are so much higher than SL that it makes investing more attractive.
Both P&R and franchise have their pros and cons. Neither are the right solution. | |
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| Club Owner | 33944 | No
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| Mar 2004 | 21 years | |
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Quote ="LUFCLR"Not because it was sponsored by a newspaper called The World, if that's what you're angling for.
Heres the explanation... www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/wsmenu.shtml
[i:2ivvkjoiIn 1884, the Providence Grays of the National League outplayed the New York Metropolitan Club of the American Association in a three game series for what was originally called "The Championship of the United States." Several newspapers penned the Grays as "World Champions" and the new title stuck.[/i:2ivvkjoi
Translation: We're the Centre of the world, so our teams are world champions.
The American model is all about extracting money for the owners. Its awful if you want to grow the game. There is a good reason American football has no other professional sports league outside of the US. The owners only care about enriching themselves. When they started losing a bit of money on NFL Europa, they pulled the plug straight away. The franchise isn't the ideal model, though I don't think that P&R is the magic pill for Super League. P&R only really works well if you're the most popular sport.
By the way, PLENTY of American sports team's hemorrhage money. Last year 15 teams in the NBA posted an operating income in the minus. There are 30 teams. NHL was worse with 18 teams posting an operating income in the minus. The difference with a lot of these other sports league is that their revenues are so much higher than SL that it makes investing more attractive.
=#FF0000:2ivvkjoiBoth P&R and franchise have their pros and cons. Neither are the right solution.[/
There is no such thing as the ' right ' solution , so you have to make one of them work as best it can , ultimatly you need to close the gap , so you either bring down the top , or you build up the bottom
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Quote ="LUFCLR"Not because it was sponsored by a newspaper called The World, if that's what you're angling for.
Heres the explanation... www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/wsmenu.shtml
[i:2ivvkjoiIn 1884, the Providence Grays of the National League outplayed the New York Metropolitan Club of the American Association in a three game series for what was originally called "The Championship of the United States." Several newspapers penned the Grays as "World Champions" and the new title stuck.[/i:2ivvkjoi
Translation: We're the Centre of the world, so our teams are world champions.
The American model is all about extracting money for the owners. Its awful if you want to grow the game. There is a good reason American football has no other professional sports league outside of the US. The owners only care about enriching themselves. When they started losing a bit of money on NFL Europa, they pulled the plug straight away. The franchise isn't the ideal model, though I don't think that P&R is the magic pill for Super League. P&R only really works well if you're the most popular sport.
By the way, PLENTY of American sports team's hemorrhage money. Last year 15 teams in the NBA posted an operating income in the minus. There are 30 teams. NHL was worse with 18 teams posting an operating income in the minus. The difference with a lot of these other sports league is that their revenues are so much higher than SL that it makes investing more attractive.
=#FF0000:2ivvkjoiBoth P&R and franchise have their pros and cons. Neither are the right solution.[/
There is no such thing as the ' right ' solution , so you have to make one of them work as best it can , ultimatly you need to close the gap , so you either bring down the top , or you build up the bottom
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