26 each

The St Merge illawarra chokers draw and pommie 'sensation' Sammy Burgess fails to live up to the hype.

Its a good day

You're right Barry ............. Burgess is a flop and the Dragons' season is over, all because of 1 pre-season friendly.



To clarify, although I'm sure Burgess will do okay in the NRL........by no means is he a "sensation". There are a number of young SuperLeague players who are bettter, so if he does shine in the NRL, it will be an embarrasssment to the Aussie forwards.

It's irrelevant how Burgess goes in the NRL. He has already done what he was bought for.

Rusty is a businessman. A GOOD businessman. He knew that by signing a pom and making him out to be the best thing since an indulgence pack of double dipped Tim Tams will increase his clubs profile and have heaps of people buying Souths memberships.

I'm sure Burgess will have a couple of good games. A big hit here, a try there and Rusty will be bigging the guy up like there is no tomorrow. It wouldnt surprise me if he doesnt make him put on one of his old Gladiator costumes for a photoshoot somewhere not too far down the tracks.

Can Burgess handle the big time? Didn't he get all sooky when Rusty (cleverly in front of the media) gave him a membership card for his deceased father? I'm not bagging him out for mourning his fathers death but Rusty is a clever guy. He would have known EXACTLY what Burgesses reaction would have been. It gets Burgess in the papers and yet MORE exposure for his club. I think that was a pretty low shot personally.

Burgess had a good first year here....I think he won Young Player of the Year......but he's not a patch on players like James Graham, Joe Westerman, Ben Harrison etc. He's not a patch on Gareth Ellis for example.

I was surprised when Souths signed him, and I'd be surprised if he makes much of an impact, he didn't do much over here after his first year, once players had seen him twice and worked him out.

So...... you are saying that Burgess is actually WORSE than Gareth Elliss?

My god.

This is worse than I thought.

What on earth is going on with the NRL??

I know we have to help developing nations out, but to take on a player who is actually WORSE than Elliss is quite frankly unbelievable.

Frustrating really when you look at all the young Aussie players waiting to play first grade footy really, but I suppose we do have to be seen to help other nations out

Yes, although Burgess' best position is prop, and Ellis' best position is second row, I've seen them both play everywhere except hooker. And I'd take Ellis everytime over Burgess.

Although I'm glad he hasn't left Saints, I don't understand why NRL clubs have targeted Ellis and Burgess ahead James Graham.

Young Player of the Year in 2006, Man of Steel in 2008, and by some diastance the best forward in SL for the last 3 seasons. Probably the only UK player who'd get into a World XIII at the moment.

I seriously don't think ANY UK player would make a world XIII right now and I'm serious

Well Jammer did make the World XIII team last year ......I think it's picked by the same people who choose the Golden Boot, but not sure.

I'll concede that your backs are way ahead of ours, but the difference in the forwards isn't that much.

I suspect it's about numbers. In Austarlia if you're a good schoolboy footballer/athlete , you play RL or Aussie Rules.

In the UK if you're a good fotballer/athlete at school you play soccer unless you come from one of a handful of RL strongholds.

Although we have a larger population overall , only a minority play RL, everyone plays soccer here. Very few kids are exposed to RL.

So much is always said about the Pommie forwards, but everytime I've ever watched GB/England play Australia the Kangaroos forwards have smashed them.

I seriously think this 'Great British forward' dominating international footy is a mythical creature, much like Cerberus, the Minotaur or Jesus.

Much spoken about but never existed

But then I can't think of an Aussie forward who's dominated international footy.....it's always been the backs.....Inglis, Lockyer, Johns, Langer, Lewis, Meninga, etc

However if we're talking world class forwards, and my definition of world class is someone who would be considered for a mythical World XIII, then Graham springs to mind now and in my time of watching names such as Hanley, Cunningham, Sculthorpe, Ward, Crooks.

If you Poms have all these fantastic forwards, why does our pack of old men always smack your pack's ?

For the record, I think Burgess will be fine, you don't get used to NRL pace in one or two games.

Very unoriginal word filter here...

I agree mate.

Eliss still hasn't grasped it and he has been over for a whole season now

Thanks frickhead, was looking forward to watching it tomorrow. How about putting spolier:result as a title and not spoiling it for others, tool!

I know you allegedly live in Perth but not even alleged footy fans in WA are that far behind the times they don't know the result of the Charity Shield.

Anyway I'm sure you already read it on one of Dally 'I'm honestly an Aussie not a pom but I don't know where the Blue Mountains are even though I claim to be from West Sydney' Messengers 'copy and paste' type posts

Are you sure? So Wayne Bennett is a complete idiot for wanting Ellis playing in the All Stars game? Burgess might not be the complete player yet, but he was good in the All Stars game....every Aussie commentator was giving him big raps.

I find all this "the English are rubbish" stuff a bit boring.....Burgess has looked comfortable against Oz in the four nations, Ellis looks comfortable in the NRL. If the NRL is so much better than Superleague, how come we beat NZ where every player bar one was from the NRL? I'm not denying its a better quality, but don't slag off our players just for the sake of it.

You see Paul the thing is that because the NRL is heaps better than the British version and the British game needs to start producing players who won't lose big games by 40 odd points to Australia the NRL have kindly taken on some British players as part of the campaign to develop the sport in 'developing nations'

World RL is pretty much dead in the water. The game could be massive in the UK...but sadly England arent very good at it. So we need to develop English players via the greatest competition in the world... the NRL.

Rusty Crowe hired Sammy Burgess for other reasons too (commercial) but thats for another thread.

So please don't think that Eliss, Burgess, Moreley and Thorman are/ were playing NRL because they were particularly good. Its a means to an end my friend. A means to an end.

I really don't know what to say.....I don't know how to respond to someone who doesn't address the questions I put forward....let's have a serious debate...

I know the NRL is the best league in the world, I spend too much time watching it not to appreciate that. I am saying you are selling our players short. Firstly the reason Australia are so much better than the other nations is the backs, simple as that. Barring Smith and Watmough, there is no x factor in there....the NRL's best forwards are mainly polynesians.

Well there is my opinion....please answer my questions:

1) If our players are so poor why did they beat a team of 16 NRL players, the likes of Marshall, Blair, Lima and Moi Moi? And it wasnt a fluke, we've always been close to NZ, they beat us narrowly and we have beat them narrowly in the recent past, even though all but two of our players had NRL experience?

2) Why did Petero Civoniceva, Nathan Hindmarsh (who having nothing to benefit, unless Russell Crowe slipped them a few quid) big up Burgess during the Four Nations, why did the whole channel 9 team big him up during the All Stars game? And as for Ellis why does the coach of Australia pick him every week and Wayne Bennett ask for him in the All Stars game? Why was he named the Wests Tigers Player of the Year for 2009 and Members Player of the Year? It certainly makes no difference to the average English RL fan, who watches as much NRL as the average Aussie does the Superleague.

I am not saying English players are the best in the world, but capable at NRL level...thats why we can play against teams who are full of NRL players. Sam Burgess proved he could cut it with two tries against Oz in the final and looked comfortable in the All Stars game, so don't make out he can't play at this level...he might not set the world alight but he won't look out of place either.

Also, Rugby League will never be big in England, it may develop slowly but will never go near soccer. First it is a non-contact sport and most parents prefer their children going down that route, and secondly the wages don't measure up...the average salary for a Premier League footballer is more than £1.1 million, with many earning well over £100,000 a week and playing in front of full stadiumns every week, so what sport are most people going to aspire to? Thats why our participation numbers are lower than Australias, despite having 4 times the population.

During the internationals England's forwards are as good as the Aussies, it's the backs where we are lacking and until we can produce some backs that are top quality then we'll always lose to them.
The Aussies produce alot more players than us because our major sport is football, they have blokes who dont get picked that would walk straight into the english side, but we've just got to keep improving and over the next few years as the RFL reduce the number of overseas players allowed we'll see more young english talent get there chance and it should benefit the international team.
The Aussies always go on about how far behind we are but the fact is it's not the main sport over here, it's like us beating them in this years world cup at football and saying why are you so far behind.