You might be interested to read Jon Wilkin's latest column on The Times Rugby League Blog and his thoughts on the game slowing down and misgivings over the new play-offs system. timesonline.typepad.com/rugby_le ... eague.html www.timesonline.co.uk/try

You might be interested to read Jon Wilkin's latest column on The Times Rugby League Blog and his thoughts on the game slowing down and misgivings over the new play-offs system. timesonline.typepad.com/rugby_le ... eague.html www.timesonline.co.uk/try

I agree with him on the play offs, but it seems everytime I read one of his articles he's whinging. He should consider spending less time whinging in his articles, and less time on the sun bed, and concentrate on getting some of his form back.

And he was slapped by Senior, not punched. He should ask BJ Mather what its like to be punched by Senior.

What is ironic is that Saints were the master of slowing the PTB down to keep Keiran in the game.

I agree on the subject of the play offs but not about the PTB.

Slower PTBs will eventually lead to players with more skills who are capable of breaking down set defences. At the moment we've bred players who seem only capable of breaking the line if the line isn't ready.

If Wilkin wants to improve he'd do well to work on his ball skills.

as on the other thread, i disagree,

Halfbacks are bred from 10 years old, they arent made when they get to SL, by that time the damage is already done

if we want to breed half backs who are used to playing against set defences (not ones that can easily break them down, we should give up on that dream, it has always been difficult for even the lockyers, marshalls, Johns to break down set defences) then we do it at youth level, by the time they hit SL they should be left to sink or swim on their own,

slowing down the ptb will lead to slower half backs playing a different kind of game, not any better, what i will lead to is a slower more forward orientated game, with fewer risks taken, as fewer of them will result in tries, lower scoring games that are on points closer, with more time spent on the floor, and bigger fatter forwards in the feka/moi-moi mould as their undoubted faillings in defence and stamina are protected

Keith knocked no sense into him then

At least Keith had the manners to face Wilkin rather than come at him from behind ala the Mathers incident.

If the game is played the same way from jumior level up then players will have to develop their skills. We should see kids coming through who are more skilful.

When the game was played with the 5 metre rule and before that 3 or 2 metres between the sides players did develop the skills to break defences.

when? Saints play for the past 15 years has relied on a quick play the ball for KC and more lately Roby to make quick yards running from dummy half.

Ignore him, it's one of the most stupid things I have read on here. I should know, I posted a lot of them. KC's career was based for a long time on being able to scoot after a quick play the ball and add 20-30 easy metres, when Saints were at their peak you'd have Roby following that with another half break and another 20 metres from the next play.

Suggesting Saints have ever deliberately slowed a game down is ridiculous, when the RFL slowing the game down has cost us more than any other team as it was what our success was based upon.

As ever Wilkin is right on this issue. What he's saying is not "We're being slowed down so it's unfair on us" which you lot are childishly taking it to but more that the winner of the collision doesn't ever benefit from it now. Previously if you won the collision and went down on the front foot and were in a position to get back up quickly your team benefited from either a quick play the ball or a penalty. Now even a weak, desperate tackle is rewarded with a 6-7 second gap while the defender messes about, turning the player and lying on until they are told to move. They then slowly work their way off one by one meaning some tackles can take 10 seconds to complete. The RFL, as ever, have got it wrong on this issue and IMO are taking all the skill out of the game. Solid 5 drives and a kick, play the percentage teams are doing extroidinarily well this season. They did it as a response to our humiliation in the World Cup, but all the NRL have done is stayed one step ahead and made their game quicker with 2 referees and a cleaner play the ball.

What the RFL needs to realise is that the reason we lose internationally is not the way we play the game in Super league, the rules or interpretations, it's simply the players. Look at your 'average' Super League back, imagine a runt like Ian Hardman. Look at your 'average' NRL back and they are a big hulking specimen with a swimmers physique, twice as tall and faster. In Aus the young athletes see League as an option, over here in 99% of the country they wouldn't even consider it. The lads that play RL in this country are more often than not people with it in their family so our Inglis' and Falou's and Hayne's aren't playing the sport to start with, so it matters little that we're trying to copy the NRL's standing on having slow, turgid league based on a painfully slow play the ball.

Super League was always more exciting because it was more open, teams were penalised for holding down unfairly and teams winning the collision were able to make big moves down the field and set up attacking positions more often. It was fast paced, end to end, exciting.

Now it's plodding, slow and all about completing sets and your kicking game and applying pressure. The sport has suffered.

its simply ridiculous to compare the speed at the ptb at youth level to SL level

we arent going to ever see the game at youth level played in the same way as SL, we can give up on that dream straight away



did they? if so why did we ever bother to move it to 10 metres?

Not really. Every team tries to slow the game down when defending. The better teams are better at it. It's being better at it that makes them the better teams.

The article says from 2004 to now, not from 1996 to now. KC has slowed down as he's got older but he's still a skillful player and a line breaker as Bullseye describes. The reason he has managed to play in this position so long is simply because it's not as quick now.

And the difference is that Saints have been quicker to adapt to, not manipulate, the rules.

Still I win your most idiotic post award so today has been worth it!

I think all youth and amateur rugby under the age of 16 should be played with a 5 metre rule.

Wrong. He was slapped and punched by Senior.

And that is the problem in British RL in a nutshell

Ask him to give you A Smack it could just work.

It would be carnage if you let a defences line up that close. Defences that know the damage they can do it they spring up and put pressure on an attack.
Letting the defence play closer will change attacking teams to be much more cautious, run from acting half, get a good kick in probably early and then play a pressure defence to win possession in the opposition 20.

If you want to make attackers develop more skills, then give them structured defences to break down. I am constantly amazed at the defensive naivety shown, whether it be wingers stuck on their wings, markers sprinting all over the place or players following their opposite number around the pitch. Such defences can be broken relatively easily and it's that lack of ability in defence if anything which is preventing the development of attacking skills - not that that is as big an issue as being made out.

Put better defences in place and attacks will evolve accordingly.

not at 13-14 which seems to be the age the big lads take over, only to drop away at 16-17 when everyone else catches up,

i think the problem is at youth level, we are having kids play the adult game,

a smaller pitch with a smaller ten, would help these skills develop, id even go as far as to limit subs to put less emphasis on explosive power and more on stamina, maybe even cut a tackle off the count to force a more attacking style,

maybe a limit on running from acting half to one per set, or even as has been suggested in Aus, removing the props all together at youth level (though this leaves a clear and obvious problem of where we get props from)

and just for clarity, i am only talking about the game and players on a proffessional pathway here, not the amateur game as a whole

Correct.........suprised he didn't have to bid for the punch on ebay TBH.

What I,m worried about is that down under they have cleaned up and speeded up the play the ball area, when we play in the next world cup, we will be totally pedestrian and embarrassing.

The PTB is a right mess now and I think Wilkin is right in his constructive opinion, if we make it any slower we will be closer to American Football with all the defence piling in, complete with the occasional forward pass.

Defences are so "set" now after a slow PTB that I can,t see any half backs being developed (ever) to break the defence line other than a chip kick or a boot down field. For me 5 wrestles and a kick has no entertainment value whatsever, give me open rugby everytime.

Australia have just changed their approach to slow PTBs because it wasn't doing as you said. It was just making defences harder to breach.



No it was because defences then were less organised and players weren't as fit making it easier for sides to break them.

all teams want quick play the ball when theyre attacking.all teams want to slow it when theyre defending.it just gets boring if every time you have a slow play the ball it results in the usual 1 man drive.its then that ball players should earn their cash.a 5 metre rule in todays safety 1st rugby would just result in more safety 1st drives for most teams because theyre are only a handful of decent ballplayers.most supporters also have little patience when up and coming ballplayers make mistakes when fresh in the 1st team,which discourages them from adventuress play.
a reduced tackle count might encourage ball play though.u wouldnt get far on 3 drives and a kick would you regardless how fast/slow the play the ball was

anyone that says wilkin was slapped by senior.
I would like to see how they would react from the same "slap"

Imo, the slowing of the play of the ball this year has been ridiculous.
Even dominant tackles dont seem to have and greater advantage than a less effective tackle.
Its an issue that needs sorting.
There have been some very dull games this year, and I have watched many games, not involving saints that I have been infuriated with the refs.

If this isnt sorted I think fans will simply stop watching RL

I was proposing mainly kids rugby be changed to 5m.
My mate was over 6 foot, had a beard and about 16 stone when he was 13. Was never a great player whatsoever but got all the trophys, reps etc, Got to 16ish and everyone caught up and dropped out of the game. I was a midget until about 15, was brought up with the right coaching, played service area games but didnt really develop until probably post 16 when it was too late. Im now bigger than most people of my year. Trust me reducing the 10m rule would make a huge difference, saw it a thousand times.




100% true, we will be murdered, the NRL is a different pace this year.
Even when people were moaning it was slowed down properly, not this flop 3 men in culture we've got going on now.