And yet still it goes on at every level of RL...anyone would think you don't know what you're talking about!

Bless.

[size=85(yes, LMS was very good today)[/size

In my unbiased opinion LMS was one of the few Saints players to play well.

Not bothered about the length of bans for Wigan players just want plenty of 'em banned for 1 week.

I enjoyed the biff and was brought up on the game in the 70s and 80s so I don't get my panties in a twist but I understand the red cards. It's a different game these days. Hock is in immense form but clearly can't control his idiot gene.

I've already answered - I said I was prepared to defer to the view that LMS wasn't being held by other Wigan players, only by Hock himself.

The rest I stand by - as a neutral, without the need to defend players from either team, that's how I saw it; Wigan were comfortably on top, Hock decided to try to get on top of LMS in the scrum by knocking heads with him, and needlessly came up swinging; a melee ensued, in which Magennis and Tuson disgraced themselves, with a sneaky dig from Mossop. I couldn't follow the rest, but I expect there'll be a mini-bus headed over the M62 to Red Hall next week.

So how about my question - are you in any way disappointed in Hock's behaviour, given the investment your club made in his rehabilitation and how important he is to the team?

Disappointed with Hock? No. You want aggression from your players; you want them to intimidate and dominate mentally and physically, you want them to push the boundaries, and occasionally that will spill over. It's part of RL and will always happen.

I'm disappointed we'll lose him for a couple of games, yes.

I think that both Hock and Magennis deserved sending off. Tuson should have had a lesser punishment than those two.

Hock and LMS were both 50/50 whilst the scrum was being formed. However, Hock escalated the entire situation by throwing several punches. This is what started the brawl and deserved a card being shown at him.
There's a video on youtube. It's poor quality but if you look in the background you can see Magennis and Tuson together. As Tuson turns away from Magennis, Magennis swings wildly at the back of Tuson's head. This should have also seen a card being shown.
I think that Tuson deserved a lesser punishment than Hock and Magennis. He wasn't the aggressor in the situation and only started punching after another player had taken a swing at the back of his head. Let's face it, if someone took a swing at you from behind would you just ignore it or would you stand up for yourself?

Hock and Magennis should both have the severest punishments out of those on the pitch but I expect that we'll see several of the players mentioned when the disciplinary committee meets.

Lets be honest, fighting certainly has a place in a derby match. In fact it's something that the derby has lacked in recent years, presumably because people want the game sanitised beyond belief. It's always been a part of the game and it always should be. It's a good, hard game played with passion and intensity and that means things spilling over from time to time. Then when the game finishes you shake hands and have a quick chat with the guy you've known for years and were swinging punches at 20 minutes ago.
A State of Origin game is never a classic without a good brawl, while a scrap certainly has a place in a Wigan-Saints derby.

The rough, aggressive and sometimes violent part of the game gets people interested. Having watched the game with several non-rugby fans who weren't paying much attention, they got into it when the players started scrapping and couldn't take their eyes off the screen from that point on. As for those who play the game, well judging the reaction on twitter they thought it was a ridiculous decision to send the three players off. They are the ones who play the game, they should know best.

Spot on.

Only seen a few replays (and not the best ones at that). Hock just can't help himself. He has no control when someone winds him up. LMS didn't deserve to be sent off for winding up Hock.

As for Tuson and McGennis, well... dirty cheap shot by McGennis when Tuson had his back turned. Tuson reacted like anyone would who has been punched on the blind side.
Didn't see the Mossop incident. Wish I did! Nothing like a bit of biff in a derby!

Normally I'd say this would just be a sin-binning incident, let them cool off and get on with it. But with Wigan just completely running away with the game, I think the ref was trying a bit of evening out the odds. Had it been a close contest and the pressure on, I think the ref would have taken the context of the game into consideration and just given them that cooling off period to keep the game interesting.

I thought there were a couple of 'tackles' after the brawl that were more worthy of a red card.

This, in my view, is what holds the game back from being of interest to the wider public and contributes to its lack of mainstream media exposure.

A gang of gimlet-eyed northerners with prison tattoos having a street brawl is NOT attractive to the average casual sports fan; it may be of interest to public school media types, but only as proof positive that they were right about RL all along.

The players involved have done the game no favours at all - don't kid yourself that they have just because one or two of them play for your team.

Agreed, there was one by McIlorum that would definitely have been a red card candidate if Wigan weren't already down by two. Pretty nasty shot by Wilkin as well.

THIS!!

Yep - it will be interesting to see what happens over those

It's a shame that the brawl has become the talking point of the match really, as without it Saints were on for a bloody good hiding.

For my twopenneth worth, if Hock has headbutted LMS then I've got no arguments with that. For Tuson and Magennis (who was a complete coward), 10 minutes each would have suffced. Mossop didn't need to get involved, and will probably get a worse ban than Tuson.

My opinion is that Hock deserved a yellow for throwing a few little punches, LMS didn't do anything to me. Magennis was a sh@thouse, hitting Tuson from behind completely separate from the initial scrap, yellow or possibly red due to his continuous punches to numerous players. Tuson reacted as expected all be it a tiny bit OTT, yellow.

Tuson - Sending off sufficient.
Hock - 1 game ban.
Magennis - 1/2 game ban.
Mossop - Warning due to exemplary record.
McLlorum - No case to answer, wasn't much in the high tackle IMO. Easily see 2 or 3 of them in a game.

Whether or not some people like 'the biff', punching is against the rules. In typical style Hock thoughtlessly lashed out at an opponent, provoking the brawl which effectively changed the course of the game. If Hock had behaved himself, or even just sneered at LMS, he may have scored another belter or two to match his first half try, and Wigan may have won by sixty points - going a long way for Pie fans as revenge for their 75-nil Saints defeat a few years ago. Don't think that the Aussies don't know this, which is why he can't play for England if we want to have 13 men on the field for more than ten minutes.

I think the whole thing was set up as far as Wigan are concerned. I would love to see the RFL disciplinary committee ask them why their front row was made up of the players it was, given that they weren't playing prop at the time they packed down and both were very keen on fighting.

Nowt wrong with a bit of biff - thought Kelvin Skerret was back when it 1st kicked off.

was good to watch but ateotd the rules state red card for vioeltn conduct so by the laws of the game they had to go.

A good point from Saddo there.

At 34-6 up in the derby with half an hour left, Wigan made a conscious decision to start a brawl and risk dismissals and suspensions.

Then again, we needed something to give us a challenge as Saints certainly weren't capable of providing it.

The game showed brilliantly the pros and cons of having Hock in your team. Devastating ball runner, but thick as two short planks. Quite why he was even bothering to try and get one over on LMS at that scoreline and point in the game I have no idea. All he needed to do was point to the scoreboard and laugh instead of starting or at least encouraging the start of a fight.

Hock was sent off for what has happenned in RL since the game started - a niggle in the scrum between two props results in a few punches attempting to be thrown.

Most of the time a penalty is given and the players told to calm down. Yellow cards at most to take the heat out.

To give only one a red seems slightly OTT - and probably down to Hock's reputation.

To then be banned for it is way OTT.

Hock and LMS weren't responsible for the brawl that errupted afterwards. Magennis was the player who then threw the next one - the majority of the blame for the brawl lies with him - otherwise it was just two props having a bit of a dust up.

Either way - if thaler had given 4 yellow cards no-one would be having this debate, and it completely takes away from where the real focus of the game should be - Wigan spanking Saints.

"Better to remain quiet and be thought an idiot, than to type something and prove it"

You had been already buried. Stains were the only team with a reason to get nasty and niggly. Lets not forget, we can only comment on what we saw, cameras don't always confirm a try for example. Yes we can have "benefit of the doubt", but can any of us truely say we know exactly what happened in minites and seconds leading up to the incident. You seem to speak with great authourity Saddo, but i don't recall seeing you on the pitch!! Or maybe you were wearing a Wellens mask, as a soon to be retired centre ran away from a, should be retired fullback.

How good was the touch judge's take on proceedings?

"That Magennis copped him with a right beauty"

Gold.

LMS is a wind-up merchant, he knew what he was doing with Hock, not that there is anything wrong with that. If Hock is serious about playing against the Aussies he needs to grow up because that will be going on in every scrum. As for Magenniss and Tuson, bit of biff, quite entertaining.

C'mon people...For chrissakes.


Its the ultimate on-pitch rivalry outside SOO....Skints onto yet another hiding....Bit of sledging going on.....And a top bit of biff!
Everything a proper derby game should be in Rugby League. God help us all, if our sport is forced to become as boringly sanitised of passion as the roundball game nowadays.
Thaler wanted his moment in the headlines, and completely ruined the game as a spectacle.
Mard @rse decision showing 3 reds, imho.