What about Hardakers influence on the rest of his team in the build up/preperation period. Do we need to take that into account?

It depends what you want from your fullback. Sam was never a massive kick returner, he would generally turn it inside for Charnley/Richards and then try and jump into dummy half to get a quick dart upfield from the 2nd play. At Wigan he always worked with "steady" halves in structured plays that were designed to get the most of his running game alongside his excellent ballplaying ability. NZW have a dynamic running half in SJ and play in a less structured fashion, meaning Sam gets his hands on the ball a lot less than he did at Wigan and he's basically just a wide pivot linking to the big outside backs. In his last season at Wigan he scored 23 in 26 with a further 21 assists, if he's used in the right way then he's devastating. For comparison, Hardaker has 10 tries and 4 assists from 20 SL games this season.

England doesn't have a half back with a dynamic running game, and I'd steer away from using Tomkins there because he hasn't played there for 5 years (though there is talk he may feature there for NZW this season). England need Tomkins' creativity out the back more than they need Hardaker's relability in terms of defence and kick returns IMO. Hardaker at centre with Tomkins at FB for me.

Of course the NRL is superior, but that isn't the only reason Tomkins personal form is poor, unless his attitude is wrong because the NRL is superior and it's not as easy for him. He just doesn't look like he's got the same 'umph' he used to have, he doesn't have anything like the same involvement level, and often has anonymous games, his stats back this up - that's not just about the level of opposition.

I think Hardaker would absolutely do better than Tomkins has this year if he'd been playing at the Warriors - he's a more rounded fullback (those that claim Tomkins is as good defensively or under the bomb are deluded) and he's also more physically suited for the NRL than Tomkins. Tomkins looks scared to take on the line, he almost looks frail at times.

You can only play what's in front of you, and in every facet of the game, Hardaker is out performing Tomkins this year.

I'd also like to add, the Warriors were going fairly well (better than usual) until Johnson got injured 2 weeks ago, so I don't buy that excuse. James Tedesco is playing for the Tigers who are far worse than the Warriors, yet he still looks like a genuine superstar.

The 2010 Grand Final doesn't count - it is widely accepted as an aberration caused by injuries at the 2007-2012 Super League Champions.

Fully agree!

You know it!

Kick returns are a huge - and basic - part of the full backs's game. Tomkins is probably the worst in the NRL at this particular part of the game. Even if he was fine elsewhere that's why I'd consider Hardaker ahead of him right now. But he's not the most solid defender elsewhere either.

I do believe his form will return in SL. The Warriors have focused on Johnson as the main man and Tomkins has been pushed a bit wider for them. He's one of those players who needs to get hold of the ball as often as possible. When the gameplan was based round him he shone and will again.

I don't see why it has to be either/or with Tomkins and Hardaker, or that playing Tomkins at 7 would such a big risk. Its not like we have Andrew Johns at 7 as an alternative. Hardaker should be full back or not at all (reserve wing at a push). Reed's a far better centre.

Agreed. Tomkins could just receive the ball, run 3 paces frantically then pass the ball down the line, kick aimlessly, miss a few tackles, & still achieve what the current incumbent did.

How many times does Tomkins make that tackle Hardaker just made on Sutton? Stopping a prop running at speed dead on the line when one-on-one? I'd say approximately 0 times out of 10. That's why Hardaker needs to be England fullback.

It was a good effort but should have been a penalty as it was high.

If you count wide acceptance as between Bradford and York.

Hardaker isn't a good defender either.

Your not good at using your eyes either are you mate? If there's been a better one-on-one tackling full back in the last 20 years then I've not seen him

Eh?

I'd say both Wellens and Radlinski were better in that department. Neither offered the attacking threat that Hardaker does though.

"The best defensive FB in the world" gets dicked far too often to be considered a good defender.

He's the best defensive FB WE have, but he's only alright.

All full backs get dicked, it's part of the job. Hardaker is one of the very few who actually stops tries you expect to be scored. But then you knew that and you're just being a dick aren't you.

Radlinski and Wellens give you a wave.

Hardaker's good, but the w4nkfest over him is going too far.

You are obsessed with Leeds!

The try saver last night was the game clincher imo.The score was 14-4 at the time and Wigan had been camped on our line for a while.Score there and its 14-10 and a different game going in at the break, as it was we went down the field and shortly after it was 20-4 and virtually game over.

Its fantastic stuff from Hardaker and argubally more valubale than scoring a try himself and he seems to be pulling off these efforts every game these days.Simply the best all round FB we have im this country right now by a distance.

I'm sure you'll have no problem rolling off a list of all these times he's been dicked in recent weeks then, given most Leeds games have been on the TV?

Off you go...

The Goons know all this. They're just lashing out because they were beaten. The one fool who criticised ZH's defence must feel pretty stupid about now.

ZH was terrific for you guys last night, the comment about the try-saver is spot-on, we score there, and it's game on. Instead, you go down the other end...

Anyone see the Warriors this morning? Anyone think Tomkins should still be England fullback? On his last few performances he'll be lucky to get a game for Wigan, never mind an international spot.