Missed that bit, assumed all were renewal (Im sure most are tbh)

more money on maintenance = less money for other things like marketing, and less on support staff does impact the playing side of things

odsal has been a big thorn in the clubs side, esp. with the maintenance

as more clubs get their grounds updated odsal is going to hold the bulls back

Have you been to the back of the family stand at odsal, toilets in a shabby old condition burger vans out to the elements

Thing is, its quite probable I know rather more about the economics of Odsal than you do.

Yes, its costing a load in maintenance. But the rent is peppercorn. Yes the Coral stand cost a million or two, but it was paid for in cash and the club owns it. Yes the food and drink facilities are non-integral and a bit basic (albeit far better choice still than at various so-called "new" grounds) but the Bulls get to keep all the income (or sell the concessions to the highest bidder).

Any new stadium at Odsal will invariably be owned by a stadium operating company, to whom the Bulls would have to pay market rent and who would be the recipient of all the food and drink income as well as much ancillary income. You replace one big cost with another, and one income stream with - well what? My understanding is that the net cost to the club would be higher with a new stadium, and that notwithstanding a probable increase in corporate income a significant crowd increase would be needed just to stand still financially.

Things are not always as simple or clear-cut as those with a simplistic outlook might think.

if thats true fair enough but from what ive read the maintenance costs were a big issue and from that i concluded any rent from a new ground would be less than that.

honestly though 10 years down the track something has to happen with odsal.

if every other club gets a new ground the bulls will get left behind

They have been planning variations of development at Odsal for at least 50 years.

Well done to the pies for the good season ticket sales. No glory hunting posts from me, successful teams attract bigger crowds, i'd like to see regular 20k plus crowds at the DW.

Is it only that long?

Unfortunately we have had a long recent run of useless councils, sometimes giving the appearance of having another agenda.

Dally is right - if something is not done at Odsal then Bulls will get left behind. Probably in 2015. However, the retail-funded option is now denied to us, after the 2002 debacle when a Tesco-backed scheme was canned in very strange circumstances - co-incidentally at the time Bradford City were going bust, and the Council could not be seen to be giving them a bail-out. Unless, of course, the Council paid Bulls to surrender the Odsal Lease (and free the site for development) and Bulls used that money to buy into Valley parade as a junior partner and so save Bradford City...but we know that never happened. What DID happen was that:

1 - Tesco were allowed, shortly afterwards, to build a huge new Store, like the one next to the Halliwell Jones, just round the ring road from Odsal and if anything a bit nearer the "must be protected" city centre. yet a similar one at Odsal was not seen as acceptable...

2 - Morrisons (one of the principal objectors) were shortly afterwards allowed to allow a big new Matalan to open on their Mayo Avenue site - ON the ring road, and about 1/4 mile from odsal and (again) NEARER the "Must be protected" city centre. Now the Odsal scheme was called-in because of the non-food component in the Tesco store - so what the HELL is that effing Matalan??

3 - Tesco were then given permission to redevelop and expand their Canal Road store - a mile outside the "must be protected" city centre. Its clearly NOT part of the City Centre, and virtually everyone arrives there by Car. Yet the Odsal Tesco was not allowed...

4 - Asda - another big objector (or Asda St James, at least) - already had a big newly-built store just round the ring road, nearer the "must be protected" city centre, with a sizeable non-food component.

5 - The Co-Op - yet another big objector (see the pattern developing?) said Odsal would be a threat to their City Centre department store. That they closed not long afterwards.

6 - The "Must be protected" city centre is a total dead hole. Most decent shops have closed, the prosed new development is a hole in the ground and seems likely to stay that way, and many people don't venture in unless thay have to.

Sorry for the rant, but surely you can see from the above how the hell did the Bulls have any chance of getting a "normal" retail-funded stadium away in the face of all that?

The current scheme, the Odsal Sporting Village, has no retail component but requires a number of public-sector participants - although it appears no public money would be spent on the stadium itself, private funding being required (and long-term market rents payable, Dally). But the current public spending environment would not seem very favourable to any such scheme right now.

The big chance was in 2001/2, when Bulls moved out of Odsal expecting a new retail-funded stadium. And that chance was blown by the actions taken by other parties with, many suspect, other agendas.

looking at the cost of proposed re-development of odsal, even putting a roof on the terrace opposite the main stand is so bloody expensive

the views at odsal from the side are fine but being open to the elements and it often raining it doesnt help

bradford arent in any immediate threat of losing a SL spot, theyve got 10 years or more to sort out the stadium satisfactorily

the turn around in season ticket holders is a very positive thing. perhaps if this stays in place for a while and the bulls get 15,000 s/holders staying at odsal is fine

the thing that bugs me about the coral stand is it was built to the shape of the old speedway track meaning its away from the pitch. surely squaring it off wouldve been the way to go

Have you been in the Coral Stand? Its so high that if it was nearer the pitch you'd not be able to see the near tryline without leaning over the railing. The curve actually improves the view from the ends of the stands, although its a pain inside when you want to have an event downstairs using much of the width of the stand.

Also, had it been built nearer the pitch then additional works would have been required for access from the road down behind, and the club would have lost the USP of the track all round the ground for holding parades and other events.

I think Bulls will be under threat in 2015 if there have not been some developments to the stadium by then. The obvious compromise will be a big cantilever stand over the popular terrace, with a load of corporate facilitiea and all the club admin etc in the required large anchoring building at the top and behind. This was originally planned, before the OSV project was launched, and I think most of us guess this is where we might finally end up PROVIDED we can get the required land at the top from the council. And, of course, the little matter of funding. A roof on the popular terrace by itself is a non-starter - very expensive with limited payback.

I think you are spot on Adey and Bradford Council have missed and denied the Bulls of several opportunities to have significant private sector investment in a prime site for retail and other commercial uses.

I also agree that come 2015 you need to have made some progress on development or a new home altogether or you could be in trouble. I was taking to Gary Hetherington about the redevelopment of Headingley recently and said that none of the clubs playing in older stadium could afford to rest of the laurels. The South Stand has to be replaced for structural reasons anyway but the point was, even if it was not structurally at the end of it's life, they would still have had to replace it because it is just not good enough when it comes to the modern match day experience. This is also why they are spending some money on refurbishing the Western Terrace this closed season. Planning and logistics issues currently make the putting a roof over this area very difficult and costly but he know that at some point in the next decade it will probably have to be done, probably once the North Stand is also replaced, which is likely to happen around 2015 or slightly beyond.

For an away supporter Leeds is one of the worst grounds in SL.
I've always felt they would be better relocating than trying to modernise that old dump.
The location as much as anything is terrible and a better site in the city I'm sure could be found.
Just don't like the place.

out of every stadium i have been to Headingley is in probably the best location, surrounded by bars, a 10 minute walk from the city centre, a train-station with great links right outside. Regardless of what you think of the actual stadium, i cant see what else you would want from a location

Belle Vue, Odsal, Craven Park and the Willows are much, much worse than Headingley.

In terms of facilities round the stadium Headingley is probably the best in the league. However, for visiting fans inside the stadium it's not the best in terms of being able to view the game as once play moves beyond the 20m line you can't really see the action.

I take it from your post you have never been to Craven Park, because if you had as an away supporter you would never compare it with any other ground in Sl.

updates?

bulls? wigan?

bulls have confirmed 10,300 sold before the deadline for the pledge deal. Still on sale but at a higher price.

awesome news. bulls are back

Actually sold or just names on paper?

Actualy sold

Impressive.

Wigan announced last week that at the first deadline date they had sold over 8000 season tickets, 1500 up on the same time last year.
That's with a price increase too.
Still represents the best value for money of any ground in SL for both home and away fans.

As for my comment about Leeds being one of the worst grounds in SL. IMO it is. Agree that Odsal, Belle Vue are very poor and worse but Leeds is pretty dreadful. Salford is ok as an away fan as the terracing is steep and you get a good view of the pitch and it's undercover which Leeds' West terrace isn't!
Part of Leeds S Stand is still deemed unsafe and not used.
IMO Leeds do need to re-locate.