The problem with Sinfield is that he is the best captain in an England shirt but not the best player in either the 6 or 13 shirt. I would have Widdop as 6 and Sam or Lockers at 13 above Sinfield any day of the week. However he has to be fitted in somewhere.

Also how many Challenge Cup winners medals has Sinfield won?

The same amount as Sean O'Loughlin. He has also been awarded the Lance Todd award.
What was the point you were trying to make?

This



It also nullifies the problem of the Aussies knowing who to pressure on the last tackle every time, as we have two genuinely high class in play kickers there.

It really baffles me that people still consider Sinfield a loose forward. He's a half back.

As a Leeds fan I'd be happy to see Brough picked - providing he's playing as well when the WC comes around as he is now.

Based on previous years, I think that unlikely.

Yep .
That's the way I would go as well.

If Widdop is not a starter England deserve to fail.

I was going to make a compilation video of Sinfield's best bits to prove his worth to the England team but it only consisted of goal kicks...so I didn't bother.

England needs tactical kickers more than anything else, I am not sure if Sinfield is the man.
Some players have skill sets that combine to make them a definite choice, “The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.” to quote Aristotle, some teams are like that.
Kevin Sinfield IMO does not tick that box, Golden boot or not.
Pros,
Great Goal kicker
Great Captain and Leader, at SL Club level

Negatives,
"Solid" players do not cut it in the Halves at Test level, you have to be outstanding with pace and guile that can make something happen from nothing and make the opposition apprehensive on what you may do with the ball in your hands.
You can have a solid Winger or Lock, solid Halves lose more than they win.
Are Australia worried about what Sir Kev will do? Maybe they are.
Not quick enough to make defenses second guess his next move.
Never done much at Test level to take it to Australia.
General kicking at Test level not seen or up to scratch.
If he has not shone by now against Oz its unlikely he ever will.
Being made Captain of England was a badly thought out move that can only cause selection issues going forward.

Tall poppy syndrome is a very odd thing.

If we're leaving out players who "haven't shone against Australia" then it's going to be difficult for Ryan Hall to play the full game on his own.

I can put it in a Nutshell if you like.

Are Australia likely to be worried about facing the Golden Boot winner and the game he brings?

I've never doubted Sinfield as a captain or clubman, far from it, he is one of the very best. However, he's not the sort of player who can turn a game on its head with moments of freak individual brilliance. His honors prove he's a winner but he's far from being an individual matchwinner.

I'd just like to see out and out creative half-backs for England, I'm not interested in how many tackles they're going to make, it just detracts from the job in hand.

I can answer my own question.
I doubt it.
Australia know Sinfields game and I doubt they worry one bit about it other than his Goal kicking and they will be thinking that 100% kicking rate will not be a deciding factor on the score line.

They aren’t going to be scared of any of our half-backs so it’s a worthless question.

They'll be quaking in they're boots about Brough



Sarcasm aside why do people think we need 2 out and out creative halfbacks? We do need an organiser and Singield is the best we have.

Except he can and does, just maybe not in a way that is spectacular. Sinfield has won many games for leeds with a moment of magic, whether it be a 40/20, and kick near the line, a long cut out pass to the winger, or a flat crash ball to the forwards, even moment of sheer invention which swings the momentum like a short kick off, a kick off aimed to bounce in to touch, a short drop out, a kick at goal aimed to bounce of the crossbar into a team-mates hands

No its not.
Who will they worry about more Sinfield and what he offers or Widdop the Stand off for one of the best Clubs in the NRL?
Widdop has a tactical kicking game, has pace and can go on his own and put defenses in two minds.
Australia would have a totally different game plan against Widdop compared to Kev

I’ve no interest in joining in an ocker circle-jerk with you. Widdop is a good player, one I would partner with Sinfield, but he isn’t Darren Lockyer or Jonathon Thurston. In fact no-one is. Everyone in RL is an inferior half-back to those two, even Cherry-Evans, Cronk or whoever they choose to replace Lockyer or deputise for Thurston. Im not scared of Cherry-evans or Cronk and I doubt the Aussie coaches are scared of Widdop, Sinfield or anyone else. Who the Ocker fans are scared of is as boring as it is worthless.

God help us.

Thanks for that quality input to the debate there.

Would Sinfield be as effective at club level if he hadn't been the captain of a team full of his best mates for 10 + years ?
he has the luxury at Leeds of being part of an untouchable group of players who are pretty good at peaking at the right time.
If he was at say Salford would the media rave about him as much or would he just look like an average player in an average team?
I've watched Sinfield's career from the start and rarely in all that time have i ever watched him and thought " wow that was brilliant" or other gobsmacked phrase to describe what he's done on the field. I have many times for Brough, Tomkins, Chase etc, even McGuire in the past - like i said he's a good leader and captain of his mates but no exciting genius with ball in hand.

You've watched his career from the start? Really because the rest of your post implys that you've hardly watched him at all.

BINGO!!