You just cannot leave your little vendetta alone can you?



With all due respect, if Steve O'Connor walked away tomorrow, Widnes would not fold. The support base and will is there to keep it going, and always will be.

The same cannot be said of CC can it?

You've gone bust once before.

If he did, what's to say in this financial climate you would guarantee people to bail you out this time?

Wasting my time again but here goes



Widnes can happily survive on their gate profits in the Championships and also potentially in SL if there is no relegation

They went bust quite simply to get out of an excessive rental agreement on the HJ/Stobart stadium that was bleeding them dry

Could Celtic survive in either competition if they didn't have somebody tipping in very large amounts ?

You might well now bring up Leighs situation both in SL and the Championships , quite simply we dont have the attendances and income to survive in either either

But not to worry because RL is in good shape , we know this because the RFL tell us so

Nothing like in the same way.

Ken Davy, Ted Richardson and Steve O Connor know what to expect from RL. I suspect LS expected better even if we didn't. He has already put 745k into something that is showing little sign of getting better financially.

Most other Super League clubs and many championship club, Widnes included would continue. CC would only continue if the RFL took them over.

So you knew better than a man who has owned and run sports clubs before? Ok then.



He knows it's not going to be easy but he will get there.

You shouldn't say things like that. You'll end up in Siberia.

Owned and ran a very unsuccessful sports club previously.

I reckon I know more about RL than Leighton Samuels does. He's already said he was extremely disappointed by the season tickets and the take up on free tickets. They've actually got a similar level to what many of us on expected so I'm one up on him there.

He's part of the same club that predicted 14,000 for Brisbane Bronco's visit and they got 2,000.

You can try and move the goalposts of the argument again but how long is he going to keep losing 745k? Its all very well and good saying that they're in it for the long term but lets look at next year. Are CC really likely to improve upon the 250 season ticket holders based on this year? So that means an awful lot more money he's going to need to put in.

I haven't been around long and I lurk more frequently than post, but I do find it hard not to pick a side in this expansion/non expansion debate.

I am sure that there are those who feel the game was going along quite nicely with mostly northern English routes and who didn't feel that taking the game out to the masses would be the best way forward.

I also know I wouldn't have got interested in Catalans Dragons and then the South Dorset Giants if expansion hadn't been tried.

I suppose the RFL have people in post who know what they are doing on this and will have a business plan and targets to monitor where they are on the path to making the game nationwide and Europe wide.

I am going to try and remain patient and hope for the best.

Another complete misread of the thread. There is effectively nobody saying we shouldn't try and expand. The difference is purely in how we should go about it.

Many people think that putting an under prepared Welsh club into Super League so soon would be a mistake in the long term. I am one of the them. It's hard to disagree with us at the moment because its pretty much gone as we predicted it would.

I'd love to be proved wrong but it doesn't look particularly likely at this moment in time.

Oh and finally, you do know this is the RFL you're talking about right?

Come on then Mystic Meg where are these predictions?

We're averaging around 3,800 at present with games still to go.

At the beginning of the season I would have been happy with 4,000 average and think we still will achieve that.

I thought we would finish bottom or bottom but one. No surprise there. It is where we are at when 3 years is up. If we are still getting bad crowds then, then fair enough.

Unfortunatley they like everybody dont know what will happen and you can have all the business plans in the world drafted by the best financial/marketing/business brains you can find and there is still a probably better than even chance that something like this will fail

It is very much dependant on the whim of people that the people trying to build and run the business cannot control

You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink

They are actually still on RLfans if you want to look for them. I also suggested that they would average 4000 in the first year. You might think its a good average but I don't think it is and I don't think it will necessarily grow from this. You have 250 season ticket holders, do you expect this to grow next year?

Its a hell of a lot better than predicting 14,000 and getting 2,000 isn't it?

My point is that I think (opinion) that LS was expecting more than 4000, I said it before CC were admitted and I'm saying it now. If he hadn't then surely he wouldn't be disappointed by either the number of season tickets sold or the number of free tickets taken up?

If we end up getting more than quins average who have had a far more successful season than us, which isn't hard, then that will be a start and good enough for me for a beginning.

As for the rest of it, I was at the meeting, you weren't. Don't take hear say and make what you want from it.

Don't believe everything you read on forums either.

So your denying the 250 season ticket holders and the £745k then?

As I said, don't believe everything you read on the internet especially forums like this.

Are you denying it, yes or no?

I actually read it on your forum rather than on here and it was from somebody at the meeting. Doesn't seem to be anybody denying it there.

Don't believe everything you read on here.

Especially on our forum, there are people there from union teams who aren't what they seem. If he says he was at the meeting you believe it. Does that mean he was? Up to you if you want to believe that. If we had sold that many tickets do you think we'd whack it on the internet for all to see? Use your noggin.

Leighton Samuels is here for the long term. That's all you need to know.

Now get back onto the masterplan - How to get revenge over Batley.

Hmmm not what you said,



and also,



You must have some pretty spiteful fans then hadn't you. Seems you yourself have admitted that its low as well and you admit that LS admits it is low so my point still stands.

The season ticket sales are obviously not very good.

The walk up crowd has been decent though considering.

Next season we will improve on sales no doubt. A lot of fans this season have had a look, so to speak and with Wire and Wigan coming up a few more will do too.

Why will they improve no doubt? Crowds are falling off and not growing.

Its amazing how you've backtracked so quickly.

How have I back tracked?

It is obvious we haven't exactly been selling season tickets in their droves. A crowd of just over 2,000 is testament to that. I'm not backtracking, just don't see the point in reading things into it that aren't there.

It is convenient to do so from your point of view as it suits your agenda. Frankly, I find it boring.

Well firstly your saying don't believe stuff on the internet and then you very quickly admit that its right.

See you have no point, firstly you tried to get personal by trying to provoke me with a point about Widnes, then you try and make out I have an agenda.

Typical diversion tactics.

I haven't said what you said is right just that season ticket sales are obviously low.

It's not a diversion tactic. I'll talk Crusaders all day.

What is a diversion tactic is talking about our crowds halfway through year 1 of a 3 year franchise to avoid talking about your last game where you had your @rses handed to you by bottom 3 Batley. Now that is diversion.

Now run along and get your 'CULLEN OUT' banner ready for this weekend.

No its not, have you not read the title of this thread. Where does it mention Batley? I'd be more than happy to talk about that in the appropriate thread, it really doesn't bother me and it doesn't interest you aside from trying to make a cheap shot at a Widnes fan.

The worrying situation around CC is definitely worth talking about at any point. Thankfully these boards aren't a communist dictatorship where we hide any issues with the game by not talking about them. Did you really expect people not to talk about a new franchise posting a crowd of just over 2000, having only 250 season ticket holders and their chairman admitting to pumping in £750k?

You might not be saying its right which either means a) your being stubborn or b) your calling the moderator from your site a liar.

See once again, skirt around the main issue by trying to have a cheap shot.