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| Quote ="Legends and Icons"No it was because you gave away over a thousand tickets for the Leeds game but that's a different subject !!!
Who is going to watch the u19s ?? Side by side with your arch enemies , cheering on the same team ??'"
Whilst being against this proposed set up I won't comment until the final details have been revealed, we can only guess at what negotiations between a well versed, knowledgeable rugby league man and a fly by night have decided.
The 'different subject' means one club giving tickets to it's stands sponsor twice a season whereas the other give free tickets to its Smith and Nephew stand sponsors every home match.
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| Quote ="Beverley red"100% wrong it is quality not quantity there are not 50 players a year anywhere good enough in the country let alone Hull & it is vital for the game that the amature club's thrive as that is where 99.9% of pro players come from it is the amature club's that introduce kids to the game. If one in a hundred make the grade (whatever the number is) then the more hundreds of kids playing the more chance of finding the odd star. That is the importance of the amature game.'"
BR is right.
IF the joint Academy is run as a true elite operation, it could just be a masterstroke for the LONG TERM.
The FC and Rovers scouts have a huge area of junior schools and amateur junior RL to cover to find top potential talent to be offered an Academy place. Hull will still need and have a thriving junior RL set up acting as the pyramid for those with most potential to be invited to the elite academy. What an incentive for young RL players in the Hull region.
Doesn't stop them aspiring to play for FC or Rovers (as they chose-no Stalinist type draft please) if they make the grade in due course.
Some of the criticism on here actually reflects a decision of the Hull clubs that I did and do believe was very short-sighted and not in the interests of the game: ie. voting to scrap A teams/reserves/under 21s (with an allowance of x over age players). The absence of a second string reserve set up between first team and Academy is the real disaster.
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| Quote ="Mr Churchill"The FC and Rovers scouts have a huge area of junior schools and amateur junior RL to cover to find top potential talent to be offered an Academy place. Hull will still need and have a thriving junior RL set up acting as the pyramid for those with most potential to be invited to the elite academy. What an incentive for young RL players in the Hull region..'"
It's short-termism of the highest order. In the immediate future, the city of Hull is going to have a stronger Academy team because the resources of two clubs are being combined into one.
In the longer term, juniors in the Hull area are going to find their opportunities to access professional coaching and facilities cut in half. The best players at 16 are not necessarily the best players at 19, and some very good players are potentially going to be lost to the professional game. Alternatively, some of them may even go on to somewhere else and build a career for themselves. All so the two Hull clubs can save themselves a few quid on the cost of their junior development.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"It's short-termism of the highest order. In the immediate future, the city of Hull is going to have a stronger Academy team because the resources of two clubs are being combined into one.
In the longer term, juniors in the Hull area are going to find their opportunities to access professional coaching and facilities cut in half. The best players at 16 are not necessarily the best players at 19, and some very good players are potentially going to be lost to the professional game. Alternatively, some of them may even go on to somewhere else and build a career for themselves. All so the two Hull clubs can save themselves a few quid on the cost of their junior development.'"
This.
Lads at the age of 14 being brought into the academy system need a club academy system relatively near to where they live as they obviously rely on parents to get them to training and games.
Much the same with the amateur game, if there isn't one nearby then there is a huge disincentive to going to an academy setup that is further away. Especially with Hull as the next nearest academy area is the Leeds/Cas/Wakey area that has plenty of amateur clubs and players in it to fill their scholarship intake each year.
So this will definitely lose players to the professional and semi-pro game.
Don't forget we're not just talking about the elite players who go on to play for England. We're also talking about players who go through the academy systems and then find their level either as a squad player or lower down the pyramid.
Once again, halving access to academy setups and coaching is not the way to develop more and better young players. It's just a way to cut costs.
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Club Owner | 10000 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="JB Down Under"The bigger the pot of milk, the more cream at the top. This is stupidity and is just about saving money that no doubt both our clubs will waste on some reserve grade nrl player.
We have struggled to bring decent quality kids through as is, now we will have half the number to pick from. Not much or BoD have got wrong since taking hull KR into SL but this one I think is a really poor decision.'"
That's a generalistic view of player development and it just isn't true. Just because you have more participants doesn't mean you will get more elite talent. If the bunch of players are of a poor standard, it limits the development of the best. This is the issue in Hull. There aren't enough quality players to fill two academies.
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"That's a generalistic view of player development and it just isn't true. Just because you have more participants doesn't mean you will get more elite talent. If the bunch of players are of a poor standard, it limits the development of the best. This is the issue in Hull. There aren't enough quality players to fill two academies.'"
Which is why their efforts should be focussed on grassroots level.
Working with local amateur clubs to improve coaching, setting up new clubs/new age groups, helping with costs, getting into schools.
This is exactly what the Rhinos are doing, their involvement in grassroots RL in Leeds is phenomenal. In the past year my amateur club has gone from one junior side to 5, parents and coaches been sent on coaching courses helped by the foundation, our coaches attending the Brian McDermott master classes, fundraising help (players, trophies, Ronnie the Rhino etc). They have around 15 full time foundation staff. They have affiliated sides from Wetherby to Oulton, to Farnley to Garforth. A new side up in Adel have gone from nothing last year to 4/5 sides this Summer. All starting at U7's.
The logic both clubs in Hull have is backwards IMO. The reason they give is that the player pool in Hull is diminishing, well do something about it.
The real problem is turning those U19's into SL players. We had two SL Dream team youngsters in 2013, both have since signed elsewhere for 2016.
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| Quote ="GIANT DAZ"1st step to a full merger ??'"
Yep. No need for 2 Hull clubs in Super League anymore.
By their actions both clubs for me show they are losing interest in junior development.
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| Quote ="Huddersfield1895"Yep. No need for 2 Hull clubs in Super League anymore.
By their actions both clubs for me show they are losing interest in junior development.'"
ahh yes, the two hull clubs that most other clubs owners would hate to lose from SL
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| Quote ="number 6"ahh yes, the two hull clubs that most other clubs owners would hate to lose from SL'"
Oh aye? Please provide evidence of which of the other owners said it, when and why.
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| Quote ="number 6"ahh yes, the two hull clubs that most other clubs owners would hate to lose from SL'"
apart from the fact that most clubs usually beat them, why? it can't be the old "we fill away ends wherever we go".. that finished years ago!
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| Quote ="Willzay"Oh aye? Please provide evidence of which of the other owners said it, when and why.'"
Cas owner would miss us both id imagine
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| Quote ="meast"apart from the fact that most clubs usually beat them, why? it can't be the old "we fill away ends wherever we go".. that finished years ago!'"
TBF it's probably a case of Hudds home fans don't bother so, why should we.
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| we do bother, 5,000 of us there today
now why would club chairman hate to lose ether hull club?
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| [urlhttp://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Merged-Hull-KR-Hull-FC-academy-team-play-League-1/story-26850739-detail/story.html[/url
not sure if this is the way forward, surely they'd be better off merging the senior teams and starting from scratch?
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| Quote ="meast"[urlhttp://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Merged-Hull-KR-Hull-FC-academy-team-play-League-1/story-26850739-detail/story.html[/url
not sure if this is the way forward, surely they'd be better off merging the senior teams and starting from scratch?'" Why should we start from scratch Hull has two teams both capable of atracting good crowds & competative (most of the time) in super league. A semi pro club as well why not? a smaller city than Hull (Wakefield) has two super league teams & a championship side & no one is asking them to merge.
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| Quote ="roversmad"TBF it's probably a case of Hudds home fans don't bother so, why should we.'"
So which would your chairman or head of finances prefer. 100 or so from Salford widnes or 10 the amount from hull fc?
Same with Cas, wakey and other clubs who would miss the paying numbers from hull fans
Like it or not that is the truth!
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| Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"...I've being lambasted on our forum in the very recent past for saying I wanted Pearson to leave & sell up as he hasn't got a clue how to run a business IMO, certainly not a rugby league one and I think the guy is bi-polar, his decision making is awful, as well as being full of excrement he fails to acknowledge his own mistakes, this action just seems to justify my stance.'" Look on the bright side, you could have David Hughes crashing you club into the wall.
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| Quote ="Beverley red"Why should we start from scratch Hull has two teams both capable of atracting good crowds & competative (most of the time) in super league. A semi pro club as well why not? a smaller city than Hull (Wakefield) has two super league teams & a championship side & no one is asking them to merge.'"
because, what would happen if, for instance, the "hull kingston fc" club made a charge up the league ladder, and was on the brink of promotion? would both FC and KR "lend" them players to achieve this or would some players from both KR and FC "swap" places with those players from the merged club?
like i said, in that scenario they might as well just merge the senior teams and the excess players could be used to form a reserve grade team?
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| Quote ="number 6"So which would your chairman or head of finances prefer. 100 or so from Salford widnes or 10 the amount from hull fc?
Same with Cas, wakey and other clubs who would miss the paying numbers from hull fans
Like it or not that is the truth!'"
apart from the fact that, before the opening game of the season this year, neither Hull club has brought over 1,000 to Huddersfield for a regular league game in 4 years, when both usually brought at least 2,000.
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| Neither of the Hull sides bring anymore to Huddersfield usually than Wigan, Wire, Saints, Leeds, Castleford, even Salford this year so why would clubs miss their income more than others ?
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| Quote ="number 6"So which would your chairman or head of finances prefer. 100 or so from Salford widnes or 10 the amount from hull fc?
Same with Cas, wakey and other clubs who would miss the paying numbers from hull fans
Like it or not that is the truth!'"
I know!!! Why are you telling me???
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| Quote ="meast"apart from the fact that most clubs usually beat them, why? it can't be the old "we fill away ends wherever we go".. that finished years ago!'"
What have been your two biggest crowds this year and against which teams ?
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| 7,737 vs Hull FC, (with a very good following from Hull,the best from them and the most either Hull club have brought in 4 years), opening game of the season, and on a sunday afternoon, always attracts a biggish crowd
7,307 vs Wigan ( with a good following from Wigan), again on a sunday afternoon
your point?
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| Quote ="meast"7,737 vs Hull FC, (with a very good following from Hull,the best from them and the most either Hull club have brought in 4 years), opening game of the season, and on a sunday afternoon, always attracts a biggish crowd
7,307 vs Wigan ( with a good following from Wigan), again on a sunday afternoon
your point?'"
You've made it for me with the first line of your post
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| so because Huddersfield attracted the biggest crowd of the season in their first home game( a game which is usually the biggest gate of the season) on a sunday afternoon, that's proof that every chairman in SL would miss the revenue from both Hull clubs??
strange logic
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