I don't think this will particularly help improve the neighbouring countries though. France have had a few years of friendlies against England, in which they've been roundly trounced, and have now failed to qualify for the 4 nations. I actually think the current set up is a good one for improving those nations - make them compete for the privilege of playing in the next 4 nations. Playing for a genuine prize will always bring out an extra degree of intensity, and will do much more for a side than getting walloped in a friendly.

Personally I'd like an England v Other Nationalities series, as it would guarantee a high standard of squad on each side, but motivation might well be an issue there - the England players would have international selection to play for, but the ON side would have no such prize.

Money is usually a good motivator!

I dont think it would, if you started taking the cream to pro clubs at certain age levels then i would guess (loosely) that you'd have more even youth leagues and i dont think it would make it smaller, if the game is strong enough then you'd still have amateur clubs running juniors, you just wouldnt get teams throwing the ball to the "biggest" or "fastest" lad every other play, i've watched a fair bit of junior rugby and till about u13 there isnt any structure whatsoever to games, its throw it the big lad every time, i know im dreaming a bit thinking every club could have successful junior set ups but surely its worth a go if you only do the odd number age groups



Completely agree with that

Well they do in Leeds.

This is so true.
I know a lad who at 13 was 6'4 and 16.5 stone. Was he too big for the other kids? yes was he a good player? no. Representative selection etc and by the time he was 17 he'd dropped out of the game. Its just daft.

Yep, this is the key issue for me. We simply aren't coaching kids the skills at an early age, they are having to learn most of them from the pro clubs when they get selected for scholarships/academies. Sadly a lot of amateur coaches simply aren't good enough or have totally the wrong attitude to be a good youth coach.

I like the idea of getting the other nations playing more often.

So true.
A lot of the problems stem from coaches being overkeen dads willing to help out, they just dont have it.
I was lucky because I had my dad to show me most of the basic skills like proper sidestepping, Kicking, spin passing both ways, flicks by the time I was 7 but I remember playing at those ages and being amazed by the lack of structure in any play.
Im not one to advocate the whole 'shouldnt pidgeon hole positions' lark but for me kids dont learn enough about the all round technical elements of the game especially proper defensive work.
A lot of kids coaches might teach the kids to be fit and may even be decent disciplinarians but if you go round watching amateur rugby now, sure there's some big and fast blokes knocking around but the skillsets are next to none, even very good amateur standard. Some may disagree but thats my opinion.

EDIT: summer amateur rugby is a MUST. You try getting the scrawny kid and smallest kid in the year (me) into space on mudbaths..it just doesnt happen. Its cold, wet and you just freeze. Ive grown to be 16 1/2 stone, not really overweight at all and run the 100m in under 11.5 seconds. I played service area years ago but did I get a fair crack of the whip.. imo no.

The answer to England's problems is quite simple, and it's not a Roses match.

Just expand the game in England, at the moment it's still very much a northern thing. Some need to take those chips off their shoulders and accept that closer ties to soccer and union clubs elsewhere in the country might provide a doorway to greater things.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. At the better amateur clubs coaching is better than the norm however, from what I have seen, there is less emphasis on skills development than there is on the fitness demands of the game. The little time that teams have together should be focussed on skills development because you can, if you take this seriously, do the fitness stuff without a coach hovering over you. Unless your name is Feka.

Need to play Aus and NZ more often. From November 2009 to October 2011 we will have played Australia once and New Zealand once. We've little chance of improving.

Secondly, Wales or France need to improve and i think its more important for the RFL to decide on having either 2 Welsh or 2 French teams in Super League because i think one of each isn't enough to help them improve.

I also think all French players should not be counted on the quota or even possibly the salary cap. That may help increase the number of French in each SL team which would help to bing them on, in the same way there are a few kiwis at each Australian club. Imagine if it was just one frenchman in each SL team other than Catalans, that would be 13 more players exposed to SL standard every week than there is now. It's bound to help to some degree.

If we want something similar to Origin then why not a home region style competition.

Yorkshire, Lancashire, North Wales, London. The main areas the game is played in this country. A 3 week mid season break from SL and have the competition as a league table.

But it would need the RFL to really back it as they have done with the Magic Weekend. Push it as an event in the RL calendar. If we're now having MW as the season opener, we've got a large gap for an event between it and the CC.

Played in May, before the holiday season kicks in and hopefully the British weather isn't too terrible and we could have a decent comp.

If you read this thread, you'd see why most people think that would be a bad idea.

Because it's a stupid idea.

Pick 4 random areas of the UK
or
North West
North East
Midlands/Wales
South/France

Pick 4 coaches

Then let them all pick one player at a time similar to how you pick two teams at school

Can't be any worse.

Thanks for that well thought out response. You clearly put a lot of thought into it. But don't get carried away, you probably have to put a lot of thought into breathing in and out or getting one foot to follow the other when you walk

I kind of agree to a couple of your points but there's problems, but to just follow it up a little:
paragraph a) thats true, and i'd like to see a bit more but if you extend that a month either side and you over treble the games, but yes, I get your point.
Point B I agree with wholeheartedly and just to follow on that, I think this is why Wales will overtake France because they have more players in other SL clubs, just like NZ Warriors do.

Point C, while I agree in principle I forsee a major problem in that Catalans' best players will just be taken overnight. One could argue that the job is, well, to produce more players however having no cap would simply see the best players end up at the best teams and Catalans end up with youth players and a bunch of overseas players plugging the gap. IMO of course.

Its not necessarily the worst idea but its fitting it in the calender, clubs taking it seriously and the RFL obviously believe there's better ideas out there.

Maybe if you had actually read the thread, you would have not felt compelled to post such a stupid idea.

I've given my views on why GB is so far behind the Aussies at international level on other threads in the past and have no desire to repeat myself ad infinitum. My suggestion was simply something to provide a similar event to SoO.

Do I think it's what's needed to improve the international teams? No. Nothing short of a massive overhaul of coaching techniques and improvements to attracting players at grassroots/school level and retaining them will do that.

'GB' doesn't exist.

I agree fully with the second part of your post, and as an equivalent to Origin, it wasn't the worst idea I've seen. The question is, why would you want to create an equivalent to Origin? For numerous reasons outlined on this thread, it is a completely stupid idea.

You say GB doesn't exist, but that's not really true is it? The England team is pretty much the same as it was as GB and players who want to play in meaningful international games switch from other home nations to England.

Why would you want an equivalent to Origin? For the money and media exposure. Two things the game really needs in abundance.

When I was at primary school, all the kids in the year were randomly put into four houses - reds, blues, yellows and greens. These houses determined teams for sports day, swimming gala etc.
Maybe we should do that.

Yes. It is true.



Do you honestly think that your 'idea' would bring either of those?

It has as much chance as anything else. As long as any idea is marketed and presented in the right way, it'll make money and get people talking about it.