You have consistently overspent to achieve dust-gathering in the trophy cabinet.

Getting to semi-finals, only to be handed your by recorded delivery, does not constitute sucess, despite how many times you may try and convince yourselves otherwise.

When did i say we was?



I can say one thing though we are more sucessfull than dire and always will be

The point is though, he's not ever going to be a star player. He is a winger who is excellent when given space to work with by his centre and who regularly costs his team with bad reads in defence as well as being physically dominated in every collision(this may be partially due to his young age, although there are other, younger outside backs who have looked a lot stronger than Penny does). Penny will never be international quality and IMO the best he can hope to achieve will be to have a career similar to someone like Mark Calderwood.

I've got no issue with Warrington or Kevin Penny, it's just embarrassing when people claim he is a future star when he clearly has massive shortcomings in his game and has not yet displayed any sort of international quality other than the ability to finish off tries, which he is superb at. In all honesty, I expect 2007 to be his best season.

Surely being superb at finishing tries is a key requirement for a winger? He has a rare natural talent and speed that you are born with, it cannot be trained or taught. That is why he has so much potential. Yes he is weak in many aspects of his game but all of these can all be improved with training and good coaching.

Whats better a winger who scores 30 tries, but lets 40 past him or one who gets 10 and lets nowt past him. Penny is fast, no question, but he has too many nightmares for me, hes crap in defence and he carries the ball looking to be dis-posessed. He has also pick up that annoying trait of arrogant celebrating when he scores, which is fine if you dont then go and feck up and let a few in.

World cup ! not for me, I would be happier with Raynor or even Fox from us, both are fast and can TACKLE as well.

He does have the potential nothing more certain than that and if that potential is allowed to go to waste it will be a shame but he is still a long way from being the star he thinks he is.

Oh, the irony.

we've had that, its not great

He's a young British player with bags of natural talent. With the right nurturing he could be an England regular.

I simply don't understand so-called RL fans who are willing him to fail.

In the end it comes down to petty jealousy and small town inter-club envy. The Saints fans wouldn't have been jeering him earlier this year had he not scored a spectacular length of the field try against the self-styled 'entertainers'.

Similarly, some Warrington fans like to use him as a convenient scapegoat.

I dont think its people wanting him to 'fail' as you put it, but sensible fans realising that he is being hyped up to something of a saviour to RL in this country, when the fact is he is a talented kid, who is fast but needs to develop further into a quality 'all round' player.

At the moment he is a long way off international class and I have heard Wire fans say he can be a liability when things are tight in a game. As an RL fan I hope he becomes a great player who can run rings around the Aussies and Kiwis, but also match them in defence when needed.

As an Hull KR suporter I hope he always plays crap against us

i think the jeering was more down to his try celebration, rather than the try itself. When a player puts themselves on a pedestal, like he did after he scored, he is there to be knocked off as soon as he makes a mistake.

Had he not celebtrated in the manner he did, Saints fans wouldnt have celebrated his cock-ups with such glee.

Having said all that, he could be a great player - he isnt at the moment. If he doesnt sort out his defensive deficiencies and stays are Wire he will have a Calderwood-like career and maybe pick up a few medals along the way; he may well have a trophy laden career like Anthony Sullivan if he joins a big club. He wont be an international regular though.

To be honest, I hope he can sort it out. I think it is a great shame he hasnt kicked on this year, as he could have been a revelation at the World Cup.

His name was on the team sheet tonight but I dont recall him touching the ball

He touched the ball quite a few times tonight, but then a split second later it was on the floor on almost every occasion.

He did. At one point he went to the middle of the field to take a dummy half carry, saw the Saints defence coming towards him and quickly offloaded to Carvell before running back to his wing. The ball was passed out to him on the next play and he dived for the ground before any tacklers got near him. I think Lowes took him off after that.

I dont know what to make of Penny.

Too much too soon - 4 year contract and thrown into the first team?

Weight of expectation?

Playing with Matt King?

Coaching Methods?

Confidence?

Saints debut winger looked more composed than penny.

Riley came through at the same time,is a similar age. Did well last year when I saw him and showed flashes of brilliance in a very good performace last night.

When bridge/reardon is back to full fitness I would be tempted to get penny a month or two in the national league.

A few knock ons and hopeless drives. His defence is still awful, yet they continue to pick him.

I don't remember him knocking on at all.

He also mad a decent tackle on Gardner who offloaded and they scored while the rest of the team watched and didn't get involved.

The result? Penny takes the blame and gets dragged off the field.

The game has moved on and the ideal winger isnt a lightening fast 5ft 9inch bloke who weighs in at around 11stone
The modern winger needs to be 6ft 1inch+, 14 stone, able to field high kicks, defend strongly and provide support to the pack in taking the ball up infield.

Pennys physique and pace is more suited to the requirements of a modern day NRL fullback. Weather he could learn the role of fullback is something that we would only find out if he was played there, and given top class coaching. Certainly his pace would be utilised more from the fullback position than from the wing.

I believe after skinning Gardner and Wellens at Knowsley Road in 2007 Ray French had him down as 'The Next Martin Offiah'. Ridiculous. He has the attributes to be a real threat but the weight of expectation after comments such as Senile Ray's is unbelievable and unfair on any young winger.

Whats more, when I see him I think he believes that hype, he has an arrogance and a swagger that belies his ability. I think a spell in the U21's or in the National League (Sorry, 'Championship') would do him some good.

He reminds me of Leroy Rivett..............only not as good

He's clearly one of the fastest players to ever play the game.

Unfortunately it's also that pace that is the sole reason he is playing the game at all. He has no rugby league background so his positioning is wayward, he's too light to tackle properly and for someone who was supposedly good at basketball his hands are terrible.

He really needs either a move away from Warrington or a proper coach. Lowes is one of those coaches who will get the pack playing well, like Bradford when Lowes was there. Only Warrington don't have a Hape or a Vainakolo, their outside backs and half backs are garbage.

No he isn't.

He's still learning, give him time yet. Quite a few people wrote Riley off three or four years ago and he seems to be coming good over time.

Our outside backs aren't garbage at all. Most teams would want to pick up Gleeson, King or Hicks given the right price.

Lets hope he never wins a Lance Todd Trophy. He may outdo Leroy and show up for a celebration of the award in a basketball kit...

Watch Tom Briscoe at hull instead....this lad is a star in the making

Tom Briscoe > Kevin Penny.

Future England international.