2 things making you look a bit stupid here:

1- Perpignan is a relatively poor town of similar size to Halifax

2- Catalan was originally added to the league for two main reasons: to help the French develop a stronger national team and to grow French support of the game. By these barometers they have failed miserably, as they become ever more reliant on imports and couldn't fill half their allocation for the CC final.

A bit like Wigoon then with an abundance of pie shops.Pity you don't have coffee shops for your disgraceful new full back.

A bit like Wigoon then with an abundance of pie shops.Pity you don't have coffee shops for your disgraceful new full back.

1. The Dragons have an average attendance that is better than most 'heartland' clubs. Judging their support on the basis of how many fans can find the disposable income for an August Bank Holiday trip to Wembley is hardly representative.

2. Where was this ever publicised as a reason for introducing a French club to SL? Making Catalans somehow 'responsible' for the success of the National Team is like saying Warrington is a waste of time because the England team hasn't beaten Australia.

Catalans are not the FFRXIII. They don't run the national team they don't employ idiots like Bobby Goulding as coach and they physically can't be responsible for the development of a whole country's talent (if we're holding them to that standard, then we should hold other clubs to that standard - and Julie Burgess uterus is performing better than most SL clubs at contributing talent to the national team).

Why do fans in the heartlands struggle to see Calatans for what they really are - a club in their own right?

OK Budge. I'm going to at least try and engage in the discussion with you, because whilst I don't agree with the way the poster has put it, I agree with the sentiment.

It's no secret that I think the sport needs to find new audiences. In RL, we have clubs that are OK at talking to the people that already buy the product, but not at people who don't (all clubs, not just the smaller ones, are guilty of this). Why is that a problem? Well, it stunts growth - our audience is getting older, and we aren't engaging and keeping fans to replace them. And our audience is one that doesn't have a lot of spending power, and is one that advertisers can reach very cheaply through new media - less than £50 per thousand in some cases.

That reflects in our TV deals and sponsorship agreements. If we have an audience with low spending power and one that can be reached very cheaply, the sport only really appeals to sponsors that are largely banned from those cheaper advertising platforms - like bookmakers. And the same applies to Sky - they aren't going to pay us more when the value of ad slots around RL content is getting lower.

So what audiences do we need to attract? Younger, urban audiences with spending power who are generally harder for advertisers to reach - and they live in big cities. That's the nature of the modern service economy.

So the future of this sport as a professional entity is not necessarily in Toronto or Toulouse or any other city in particular, but it is in cities generally. It's in crowded media markets that advertisers are willing to pay money to reach. Unfortunately, in SL right now, we only have one of those - Leeds (I'm not getting into the Salford / Manchester debate).

Toronto is not necessarily THE answer to that issue, and it comes with huge risks, but it is currently one of the few answers that we have.

I'd be more than happy if the existing heartland clubs could prove themselves adept at reaching those valuable audiences, but they just aren't. York have shown that it's not difficult to reach new people, but the reason why places like Toronto are on the agenda in the first place is because there are so few clubs like them.

Congrats to Toronto. They've done their part, now it's a case of seeing how other results fall for them. But I think they'll still go up via the MPG against London if that's what it comes to.

I’ve watched Toronto numerous times and found them to be genuinely awful. Just another Legh from a few years ago under Rowley; clearly the best collection of players in the Championship, should easily get promoted [and didn’t in Leigh’s case, it was getting rid of Rowley that saw them promoted and I thought the same would happen to Toronto.

Toronto have loooed exactly the same for me all season. Just another boring Rowley side, more interested in bullying the opposition than playing decent rugby. But you can’t do that against SL teams. Wire showed Rowley up for this twice in the Challenge Cup, once with Leigh and once with Toronto.

Until last night... that’s the first time Toronto have looked a decent side in my eyes. Okay Leeds are poor, but Toronto looked every part a bottom four side in Super League. Fair play.

I can still actually see Hull KR giving Widnes a good hiding and London the same to Halifax, the Million Pound Game will then be Toronto v London in Toronto.

But for the first time I see there may be something about Toronto.

You really should drop the fans business it is old boring and incorrect.

Fans are only important for one thing making a ground look full so it gives some TV impact when the cameras are there.

If a club has 10 fans but a £5 million pound deal for sponsorship and they let everyone in for nothing that it is 10 tomes better than a club having a £100k sponsorship deal and 3000 fans for 11 games.

Do the maths.


Money in sport is about TV deals and sponsorship paying fans are fairly unimportant.

Have you heard of RU or cricket it is all about TV deals and selling little electronic boxes that sit under televisions


They may not have levetricity or broadband where you come from but it is the future

Sone truth in that the games has lost its sparkle.

Too much 5 drives and a kick. The only strategies teams have for winning games is. a/. Slow the game down,

B / milk penalties by throwing yourself to the ground rolling around and trying to con the ref and then getting another set.

The games needs to do something radical to make it faster and more interesting the way it did when it went from 15 to 13 players, 4 for a try and 1 for a DG or get rid of ridiculous scrums.

Maybe time to go to 12 a side to allow for more attacking plays ?

Most fans on here (including me) reckon that the senior RFL management is incompetent. How could such incompetents engineer the sort of conspiracy you're implying? The same outfit that can cock-up the parachute payment implications can also dictate in advance refereeing decisions, red cards, last minute penalties and diciplinary committee bans?

You would think if the Canadians go up they will bring in a smarter coach to manage the high profile players they will know doubt bring in. Rowley has just about done his job

Rowley had done a cracking job.

The players he's had to work with aren't exactly a special talented bunch.

Could be a godd result in the long run, it proved that big changes are needed

The teams he’s had to play against haven’t been exactly talented either if Toronto do get in SL I don’t think Rowley will last very long

Budgy sadly even with all the money Leigh have from full grounds they are likely to follow the Bulls into the championship 1. Its about balance not just crowds, just let it go we've heard the message

Knowing that there would be few away fans, what did Leigh do to make the shortfall up and full that spare capacity by attracting locals who wouldn't otherwise have attended? Locals who would be worth far more to the club in the long term than any number of supporters from Toronto, St Helens or any other town or city?

That's the maths that matters.

Fill your own grounds and sort your own shortfalls out. It's not down to away fans to make you financially viable.

Nothing and now they can only name 16 players for their final game and are being liquidated at the end of the season. Reap what you sow.

Meanwhile Toronto have trebled Leigh's average attendance with barely any away fans at all for any of their matches.

I watch the NRL and the pace is frighting compared to SL. Roosters vs Souths was played at a rapid pace.

Nothing radical needs to be done. The ruck on SL needs to be cleaned up first and foremost.

It's not all about cash, I'm old school. It's great having away fans at grounds, bit of banter etc. Creates an atmosphere.

So it's OK for certain expansion lovers to be obsessed with some M62 clubs. Message heard 'loud & clear' ....xx

Don't think he said it was unless I read it wrong

A flight from south France to London is a similar price to a train ticket from northern England to London, so no excuses for the pitiful support they brought to the biggest match in their history, it just shows that in reality the Dragons have not increased French support of the game any more than it was in 2006 when they entered the league.

I'm sure if you can be bothered to dig out all the rfl statements when they introduced Catalan to SL (I can't), you will find that the French national team was a major reason. Similar to the introduction of NZ warriors to the NRL, the idea is to expose players to a higher standard of play. The problem is, that while NZ Warriors tend to promote tonnes of local players, Catalan would much prefer to buy Aussies.

So again, what exactly have Catalan achieved? If you view them as an expansion project they have failed. If you view them as a club just like any other, then they have been moderately successful, but why does it make a difference if it is them or Leigh or whoever in the league?

If it was a franchise system they could promote local players