With the exception of four, maybe five clubs, are any sides crowds sustainable? The only difference I see is that our heartland clubs have had a hell of alot longer to try and increase them

Neither.
Toronto can claim to sell out every game if they like, but the harsh reality is that any club in RL needs to be built from the ground up. People defend their rise through the ranks as being fair,but the reality is the deck is stacked in their favour. Last year their squad cost more thn the other 11 sides in the comp....this year they are again buying their way up and when combined with a skewed fixture list that 100% benefits them in the business end of the season.
When they are promoted, they'll need to sell 20,000 full price tickets to every game.......and I'd be wrapping Argyle in cotton wool, because if anything happens to him they'll vanish in an instant.
Same for Beaumont at Leigh, Hughes at London.....benefactors are great but without another source of income then the club relies on their owners good health.....
6,521 was the average of Leigh last year in SL......do you honestly believe that Toronto's average was higher? Leigh maintained that whilst getting hammered week in week out whilst Toronto ran a beer festival with some rugby on the side....let's see how they do next year in March for the visit of Huddersfield.

Just to be clear.....like there's no santa clause, there's no North American TV deal on the horizon either.....

Dodged the question mate.
Which one? Pick one....

I didn't dodge anything. Neither of them are likely to ever attract 10k gates so long as the game continues to be run as badly as it is. Leigh because they are a small side living in the shadow of their bigger neighbours and Toronto because no matter how many dollars argyle throws at them, they will always be an alien sport a long way from home and once the hot dog canon is packed away and they start playing home and away as everyone else does, we'll see the lure of live RL when there's a chill in the air.........their claims from last season are 6,992 average.....London were on 5,700 in year 1, Paris 8k+.......neither of them managed 10k either

Why does it mean nothing? You said Leigh would be more likely to get 10k crowds. Toronto could get 10k, or indeed much more than that. Leigh imo couldn't. I don't see what you are basing your answer on.

When I talk about not taking sides I mean between the clubs in general. Not this question.

You name me a single team in any sport that didn't buy their success one way or another. Spending money isn't "having the deck stacked in their favour."

I agree the great Wigan side of the late 80s early 90s as a prime example Bradford after them also regardless of how much they spend if they get promoted Toronto deserve it because they started at the bottom

Im told Vegas ice hockey have achieved something remarkable without spending big.(I know nothing about the sport)

What about the likes of Bournemouth and Burnley in soccer (i'm unsure what success looks like in your eyes, equally what buying success is)

Can I ask you have you ever been to watch a rugby league game in Toronto if not how do you know every thing about them do you have a train fly on the wall watching and telling you every thing that goes on lol

The likes of Bournemouth and Burnley have done really well against sides with bigger budgets. But they have still bought their way there haven't they? How many local products have been involved in their success? It's not organic.

My point is you can't blame teams for spending money to gain success if they are fortunate enough to have it. That's what professional sport is.

Depends how you measure success ?
Surely, competing in SL makes a club more successful than winning The Championship or League 1 title


As for sustainability, who knows.
They've done exceptionally well to play second and third tier RL and generate the level of "home" interest that they've had so far, especially when you factor in their ground issues etc.
IF they can gain promotion to SL, we will find out just how good their marketing and promotion is and right now, you would back them to be getting 7500 - 8000 attendances, with very little away support and maybe they can grow that number, only time will tell and to achieve this, promoting a sport which is alien to the locals, is excellent.

You have to have reservations about their suitability to be part of a "European" competition but, right now, they are doing everything that could be asked of them.

I really don’t get all the negativity from the Leigh fans towards Toronto?

Regards

King James?

I don’t get your antagonism for anything that falls outside your favourite things.

The fact that you have no idea why some Leigh fans dislike Toronto suggests that you haven’t been reading or listening over the last two seasons. Perhaps you are just posing, again.

I don't think Leigh fans have a problem with Toronto I think it's more that certain posters seem to use Leigh in a derogatory way when talking about Toronto as you well know

It's just fear/jealousy that Toronto may take "their" place in the top flight.
The fact that there are 3 English clubs above them in the table, plus Toulouse, doesn't seem to be an issue.
Although, Toronto are the top side in that league, by some distance, so therein leis the problem.

Having said that, Leigh have been going very well and having done Salford in the cup and with an easy tie coming up (against Leeds), they may fancy getting to Wembley ?

I'ts strange that, with so much going for them at the moment, they still remain extremely bitter about Toronto.

I'd say, read reffy's post to his reply to leby.

This is absolutely correct

You haven't a clue pal. Rowley leaves us 10 days before the start of a season, and still hasn't explained why he left. Then he 'taps up' quite a few of our players, hence the fact that Beswick, Kay, Emmit, Armstrong, Pownall, Whiting, did not selected to play for our club again in our promotion season. And they way that Mr. Morals has talked about our club since he walked out on us, it's as if he got sacked unfairly. So if you and Sir Kevin Moron were Leigh fans, you'd be so pleased at how well they are doing at the moment wouldn't you





. Neither of you 2 will reply to my post, because I'm right. Paul Rowley was a Leyther, he is NOT anymore. I'm pleased for Dixon, Hopkins, Worthington, Higson & Patterson. They gave their all for our club, and we released 3 of them anyway (bad idea).

1. Nope. Not been to watch a game in Toronto. Given that such a feat would currently have been impossible this year to date is part of the issue.
2. Toronto Wolfpack have an unpaid supplier issue in terms of their shirt supplier. This comes from the guy who runs the brokerage firm that also sells to other sides such as London Broncos.
3. Toronto, as alluded to in point 1. above, have a skewed fixture list that favours them 100% over the other clubs in the Championship. These visiting sides will now be facing a fresh and rested Toronto at Lamport, whilst they have just got off a plane....this is an unfair advantage.
4. Toronto's "sponsor" doesn't fly from the south of France to Toronto.....so actual cash would have needed to be spent getting toulouse there, so what do the RFL do......
5. We hear there was no ground available, yet I seem to recall a match played in the region a couple of weeks back.......why was that ground not good enough from the end of Feb?
6. Perez is the invisible man after 1 year......and you don't find that odd?
7. 200 is the number of fans who attend "live" brunchtime games in Toronto CBD.....no doubt this hardcore will be joined by 9,400 at each game this year



So no. No need to train a fly (see your dealer buddy) to spy on them.....they are an excellent spin machine and they have the cash to back it up, but as I said earlier, PSG averaged 8k in year 1 when the comp average was 6,750.......

So, your gripe is with Rowley and not directly with Toronto ?

Maybe Rowley wasnt getting what he wanted/ expected from Leigh or, just offered a huge wedge to up sticks and leave your club in the lurch ?
Regarding your players getting "tapped up", I would suggest that your club was very slow to act.
Usually when someone leaves at short notice, they would be prevented from taking key personnel with them and perhaps with some of your other "stars" now playing elsewhere (your 2 ex halfbacks spring to mind), maybe there were some other issues that you aren't privvy to or, dont want to share ?
If everything is fine and dandy, you dont usually see a mass exodus.

More or less, but the way Brierley, Kay & Emmitt acted at the LSV, when they beat us, has added them to my list.
As for our half backs. Ridyard was treated badly by the club, especially when we got into SL, Jukes only selected him for 1 game, then eventually got loaned out to Huddersfield.
He had 1 year left on his contract, we wanted to 'loan him out' with a re-call option, obviously Martyn wasn't happy with this (and neither were 99% of Leigh fans) and he departed for Fev.
As for Brierley, his management company appropriately called 'showmethemoney' early in the 2016 season he demanded 'improve my contract, or I'm off' and so he departed.
My wife is good friends with Adam Higson's Mum, and what she has told her about how he was treated by the club, is not nice at all, or should I say Keiron Cunningham.
Both clubs are hardly angelic, but if Toronto get into Super League, then hopefully Mr. Morals will become unemployed. I have nothing against the club, bit bizarre how they are in our league(s) but a'la Toulouse & Catalan, I have got used to it.

Decent and balanced post, thank you and as with all things, there are usually 2 sides to every story.
I know that there are only a handful of Leigh fans on here but, boy, you seem an angry and bitter group of fans.

Even if you dont make the qualifiers or gain promotion this season, you club and team look to be right up there and therefore next season looks more likely for success.

You'll have plenty of extra fans for your cup game and there is a reasonable chance of another upset and a semi final spot, even I will be joining the red and white army for that one



Enjoy the ride !

If we don't make the qualifiers this season we're fecked, budgets are based on the money coming from the m8's

So I take it you hate Toronto what has happened has one of the players ran off with your wife lol