So in reality much like the premiership in soccer since forever?
Teams even a 1/4 of the way through are very predictably going to be in the drop zone come the end of the season barring some out of the ordinary turnaround. The same turnaround that happens on occasion in all sports incl RL.
You don't know much do you sonshine

But we binned the franchises because wanted thrills and spills.....we may get them, but not until September now, because we already kow the make-up of the 8's.......no difference and now Delboy has gone with his 500k, they can shut the door again.......as for what I know or don't know, I know that clubs will overspend to stay up.
And again...stop with the soccer comparisons......we're a million miles away from them...."sonshine"

It's not the system's fault it's either a team being too good (Saints) or a team playing doge (Catalans). It is literally impossible to have an "every minute matters" scenario. Even before licensing you had the same three clubs at the top.

Re. The Toulouse v Halifax game.

Fax played their cup game on Tuesday night at the insistence of the RFL even though they had to fly out for a game in France on the Saturday night. Obviously we would have preferred to leave it until the following week.

Due to the Annual French Air Traffic Controller's Strike their flight was delayed so they didn't even have chance for a training session prior to the game.

Toulouse caught Fax cold with 3 tries in the first 12 minutes before Fax could reply. There were no further points for the next half hour. Around 10 minutes into the second half, with the score still at 16-6, Fax had a try disallowed for offside which video footage showed to be a perfectly good try. Toulouse then scored at the other end shortly after and we then entered into the last 20 minutes where the Full-time training and 2 week rest kicked in and they then ran away with it.

Not saying we would have won anyway, without all the buildup problems, as Toulouse are the best team I have seen in the Championship this season. I just wanted to stress that it was by no means the thrashing that the final score suggests.

Fair comment.

Alright, use tennis as a comparison then, or pretty much any other elite sport!

OK.....our good old buddies at TW2 Towers!

They started their 12 team Professional Premiership over 20 years ago.....after some growing pains where London Scottish and Richmond were shafted by London Irish and the RFU, they have gradually grown, all the while keeping the same 1 up 1 down scenario, losing Bristol, London Irish, Orrel, West Hartlepool, Bedford, Rotherham, Harlequins, Leeds, Northampton, Worcester, Newcastle & London Welsh.

Of that list, 3 are clubs that have also won the thing. They only once had no relegation and the denied side didn't whine, but instead got their ground up to standard and were promoted the following year......all in 9 sides have won their comp and all 9 are still in it and of the 3 that haven't won it, 2 have lost the grand final

Over the same period we've moved the goalposts countless times, from promoting London and PSG at the start, protecting Catalans, 12 sides, 14 sides, Licenses, top 5, top 8, middle 8........and we've had 4 winners with one of those bankrupt more times than RBS and at the but-end of the structure and the other 3 all likely to be involved come the business end of the season......it's predictable and as such we can't attract headline sponsors or fans to games.

Maybe London, Toronto, Toulouse, Catalan, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Newcastle and NYC in a 10 side "super dooper league" is the answer, or maybe it's not, but this middle 8 nonsense isn't, that's for sure.....crowds are down, Viewing figures are down.....it's a good job nobody is on performance related pay at the RFL

The game is at a long time low, you won’t see me argue against that. Elite sporting honours though will more often than not be battled out for by the top 4-6 top clubs/athletes. Thank goodness Bolt, phelps and Farah have retired, it was getting a bit tiresome.

7 teams have won the RU Premiership final, 3 more than SL. If you’re going back to late 80s for your 9 RU ‘league’ winners you can add a few more to RL too.

But Union are having the issue of the top league being too far ahead of the Championship. Bristol last year, London Irish this year, both promoted, and both going straight back down.

At the end of the day, there is no perfect system to satisfy everyone. I personally am a fan of the current structure. No matter how fair the salary cap is, you're always going to have a crap team or 2. See the NRL, NFL etc as examples. I'd rather see those crap teams challenged, than plod along waiting for next season. And I think most fans would too.

What Union have which we don't is the European cup qualification, those teams who aren't going to win, but aren't going to go down, still have something to play for.

We’ve had various different systems/setups of the leagues over the life of SL and yet the same clubs are mostly the ones with realistic chances of winning it. Personally I think this shows that those clubs are the best run ones and so we need to find a structure that allows the other clubs to follow their lead.

In my opinion P&R isn’t the answer. We’re too small for it to work as it does in the Premier League.
Gutterfax rightly points out that Union have P&R and it seems to work, with a turnover of clubs including some big names in there. However I think RL is virtually unique in the nature of the game. I think it’s easier for an RL team that is slightly better than its opposition to dominate and rack up big scores both in each game and over the season. I think it’s easier for “lesser” sides to compete in most other sports but especially football and Union.
I’m not saying that as a criticism of those sports by the way, I think it’s a failing of our sport and when I say we need to find a structure that enables clubs to build to the levels of Leeds/Wigan/Saints etc. I don’t just mean the makeup of the leagues. I think we need different financial criteria as part of the setup to incentivise clubs to increase income and to spend in the right areas and in the right way. I also think we need to look at the on-field rules to both increase the spectacle and mainly make it less easy for one team to gain a foothold in the game and to stay there.

Without those changes I can’t see how we can ever have a truly fully competitive league and perhaps more importantly don’t see how we can ever get second tier international teams to be competitive.

And? I've just listed some pretty big names in Union that went down, but that's sport. 3 winners of the Premiership were also relegated in the last 22 years.....they all got back, others didn't.....that's the life of a sport. We have become far too obsessed with Super League......the Championship this year is just as exciting...Imagine if London, Toronto and Toulouse were all looking at one spot whilst ALL having H and A games alternate weeks and taking part in the Challenge cup......but none of that is happening, because we don't know yet what the plans are for 2019....it's insanity.


Do you work in PR? English Premiership Rugby Union professional comp has been won by 9 different teams in the period that SL has existed.....no matter that they took a few years to adapt to the knock out stuff.....but that was a lovely bit of spin....if you're not in PR, Australian Cricket perhaps?


Not the foggiest where Delboy is, but 5, 6, 7 13 19, 31 B28.......[size=50bugger, I'll have to buy than now just in case[/size

Im looking on here www.premiershiprugby.com/about-us/history/ and can see 7since 96. Who am i missing? See if you can reply without being a pillock.

Im looking on here www.premiershiprugby.com/about-us/history/ and can see 7since 96. Who am i missing? See if you can reply without being a pillock.

A major reason why the "lesser" union clubs are better able to compete is the player drain experienced by the big boys during the 6 nation, autumn internationals etc. Which is why their fans tend increasingly regard their GF equivalent as a better barometer.
In regard to RU's P&R, this is going to have to change IMO. The premiership clubs lose, on average, over £3m per year. That's each. Last time I heard, about 4 were up for sale and most had been for some time. The uncertainty of P&R may not be wholly responsible for stymying new investment but it sure as hell ain't helping. And I suspect none of the less successful league teams will ever attract the level of investment needed to challenge for as long as it's impossible to determine what the long term costs of such a venture might be.

Quote ="Seth"Im looking on here www.premiershiprugby.com/about-us/history/ and can see 7since 96. Who am i missing? See if you can reply without being a pillock.'" Since 1996 the winners of the rfu profesional premiership have included: Bath, leicester, saracens, wasps, Newcastle, Northampton, sale, Harlequins and Exeter. .......no need to be a pillock when supported by fact....these aresults winners of the com petition as it was run at the time...... once we get to grand finals london irish and Gloucester have been bridesmaids meaning 11 of the current 12 have been at the business end of the season.....

Quote ="Seth"Im looking on here www.premiershiprugby.com/about-us/history/ and can see 7since 96. Who am i missing? See if you can reply without being a pillock.'" Since 1996 the winners of the rfu profesional premiership have included: Bath, leicester, saracens, wasps, Newcastle, Northampton, sale, Harlequins and Exeter. .......no need to be a pillock when supported by fact....these aresults winners of the com petition as it was run at the time...... once we get to grand finals london irish and Gloucester have been bridesmaids meaning 11 of the current 12 have been at the business end of the season.....

Nice one, just cut out the pillock bit next time and youre on to a winner.

RU administrators are certainly more forward thinking than their RL equivalent.

I've read the thread several times, and I'm now completely lost as to who's the stupid person (definition of pillock)?

Maybe it's me........

I believe it was me who was called a pillock.......possibly because when asked to fins a sport that had little if any change to its structure over the last 22 years which had prospered I reverted to type.......and when faced with the reality of me being right after questioning my facts I was then called a name......standard rl forum fare to be honest. The truth has no place here, only opinion and only if it's positive and and out my club....

"Do you work in PR? English Premiership Rugby Union professional comp has been won by 9 different teams in the period that SL has existed.....no matter that they took a few years to adapt to the knock out stuff.....but that was a lovely bit of spin....if you're not in PR, Australian Cricket perhaps?"

Here you go. You were correct obviously re RU winners and i couldnt find the numbers due to the changes in structure and therefore was wrong (not really standard rl forum fare to admit that i know). I challenged the information and you backed it up. I agreed about how forward thinking RU is. The pillock assertion was for the 2 sarcastic digs that were unwarrented and just kind of came accross a bit pillockish.

As i said earlier i think the games at a longtime low and i follow leeds but im not a die hard fan and theyve been the winners of a tallest dwarf equivalent last year (cas aside til they choked). So how does that fit with your 'the truth has no place' and 'only if its positive'?

Back on topic.

London 10 - 30 Toulouse is the half time score. It looks like lots of people have underestimated Toulouse this year, myself included.

16-36 final score

Table topping Toulouse have left the flatcappers speechless.

Toronto are looking like they are going to win comfortably against Featherstone.

When this thread was started, nobody thought it was possible and many took it as a bit tongue in cheek.

As the weeks roll on and they keep winning, it’s looking more and more possible that two of Toronto, London or Toulouse could get promoted?

The RFL have not yet decided whether or not there is to be promotion/relegation at the end of the season.

If Toulouse and Toronto look like qualifying there will be!

There will be promotion and relegation under the super 8 format as has been the case for the last few years. The thing that’s yet to be decided is the number of teams and league structure for 2019 onwards.