Yes. It's not a coincidence that the loss of these teams has coincided with the return of relegation.

I would bring back licensing in a heartbeat. No system in flawless, but a system which directly caused our sport shrink substantially in just a few short years is a system which a sport like ours, already struggling to attract sponsors and fan interest, cannot afford.

Ahhh that closed shop policy. Promotion and relegation add excitement to three game. Whether the structure is quite right I'm not so sure. Catalans have been in regression for ages. They only have themselves to blame, year in year out signing journeymen on big contracts. Not to mention their coaching selections. A year outside SL may give them a chance to sort themselves and improve, ala Hull KR. London don't get enough following, regardless of what league they're in. Catalan can bounce back. I think bradford could potentially too in years to come.

Come on Leigh

Thing is Bradford is situated along the M62. Also you make it sound like the sport is to blame when in fact the club should got themselves into precarious positions. I'd also like to see the evidence where the sport was made richer by the presence of London and Catalans.

Oh without a doubt, it is the major flaw of this system, or any p + r based system.

I know people on here disagree, but I'd much prefer licensing, with the obvious issue being that it would have to be done properly so that anyone who deserves to be in SL or can operate at that level can get there and be given, as you say, time to build.

Given that all of their games are televised and that they're getting respectable home crowds, I think its fair to say that more people in France are watching Super League than they did previously. I'm not sure what Norwich and Bristol have to do with it.

Its nothing to do with me hating Leigh as one poster said by any stretch. I'm fairly indifferent to them. I just think that for the good of the league, a Dragons win is a better result.

No, I'm a Leeds fan, but I'm sure you realise that in a group of 15,000 people, you are going to get a wide range of opinions. Some will be at one extreme, others will be at the opposite extreme and most will be somewhere in between. I'm pretty sure you don't have any idea where my views on the Leeds coach sit, but you've made that judgement anyway and then thrown in some childish insults for good measure. I'd suggest that makes you quite silly.

You have said a couple of times now that I know "#### all" but haven't yet offered up one counter argument. I'm sure you realise that but, for the sake of having a decent discussion, I'm more than happy to listen to reasonable arguments as to why I'm wrong. You never know, you might be able to teach me something. Your move.

I picked Norwich and Bristol as just a couple of examples of places that would be oblivious who stays and who gets relegated in SL. We have an obsession to grow the game anywhere but in Britain.

There's also some implication of blame of the sport (not by you btw) that Catalans are in the position they're in, when in fact it's down to (Robinson aside) succession of poor coaches, poor recruitment and apparently a poor club culture off the pitch.

ATEOTD, if Catalans stay up, great. If not, well theyve got some interesting matches to look forward to against Toulouse and Toronto.

Look at Rugby Union always had a problem with crowds for Club games ( and sponsorship)

Then hey presto the Heineken cup playing johhny foreigner where you don't get huge amounts of away fans and then the game moves on to new levels. Financially publicity wise and attendance wise.

The pro 12 lets in south af'rican teams who bring no fans to away games and guess what it attracts more money and publicity.

In RL we still have numpties who think that the game can survive based onM62 clubs serving about 4 million people.

Look at cricket the county game is slowly dying
so what do they do change the format more 20 20 and sell it around the world. IPL now gets more money ( outside of India)than the whole of RL in the world put together to watch Indians and the best players play a mini league.
As the game contracts it will get poorer and harder to market. Everyone will go to alternative sports we will be left to a smaller pool of players. Kids do not play RL like they used to.

Losing London was bad ( much of sky's money came from London). Losing Catalans will be worse.

It is just another example of the death knell of RL. In 10 years it will be a semi pro SL if indeed some of the top clubs have not gone to the dark side.

I tend to think that anyone over the age of 30 before the age of digital technology should be banned from posting on threads like this as they are so far in the past they are just waiting to become extinct like the dinosaurs.

So you think the game is progressing then



If you take your Leigh tinted glasses off, just for a moment, you may see the bigger picture.
If RL cant operate outside the M62 corridor, it will, over a fairly short period, revert to semi professional status and whilst this may not be the end of the world (so may even prefer it), we will probably revert to how things were in the 80's, minus any overseas players or, Aussie players.

Like it or not, the game has to have sufficient profile to attract Sky, or whoever and have enough "pull" to make them want to pay to show our sport on TV.

The will pay naff all for a part time "pub" game played in mining towns in the North of England

If that's what you want, then great.

Personally, although I agree about the lack of atmosphere when the farther flung clubs come to visit, the game needs to expand or it will disappear.

Great result for Widnes though.

I'm struggling to find anyone who is blaming anyone else other than the Dragons.

Agree with all of this. Several points have been made on this thread arguing the reasons why Catalans are important to super league. I'm still waiting for a differing opinion without resorting to insults and paranoia over there own club.

Maybe the relegation of Catalans might be good for the sport if it somehow leads to more exposure for the Championship. I'm not sure how any game can truly flourish when all of the focus seems to be on one division.

Might be for the best if they go down. I understand people wanting Catalans to stay up but it's based more on what Catalans were several years ago or could potentially be. At this moment they're a poor club that's gone backwards.

We could do with a strong Catalans in SL
We don't need this current version of them though

Losing Catalans will be catastrophic to the game

In what way

How will RL in this country grow? Success of the international game which means strong England international players.

How are Catalans/London/Toronto/Pyongyang? Contributing to that?

Widnes and Leigh are hot beds of RL talent in this country. Widnes run an academy graded as Outstanding by the RFL and Leigh have plans to run one once they are safe in SL. Those academies will produce England internationals. Walker and Brand at Widnes are two players with massive international potential.

Some times people need to see the bigger picture rather than think what a great away day the South of France is.

Come on Leigh next week!

Rugby league will not exist in this country without Catalan's and their NRL journeymen I'll disciplined side. In what way has London's relegation been negative ? You just crack on with it without them. Catalan's are not a new side. Relegation could well revitalise their whole club as opposed to them just regressing and stagnating in a franchised based environment.

If relegated, they need to crack on with it like the likes of Cas, Leigh , Widnes And Hull KR have done in the last decade. Whilst their gone it will have zero impact on SL imo.

In no way, it's just expansionist bullcrap

Please excuse this view from a fossil ( I'm over 30 !!!)
The second tier of rugby league is looking very cosmopolitan next year with the possibility for 2 French, a Canadian and a team from that there London place.
All are full time, with good home support bases (London accepted) and their games against each other should be a marketing man's dream.
2 French local derby's, Toronto playing in the Capital broadcast all over Canada and beyond. With good advertising, the Summer Bash becomes an International Rugby League Weekend.
Blackpool landladies will be scrubbing their door steps already.
This offers so much if professionally handled (what would a Barry Hearn do with it) it could be the birth of a proper 2 league system with 20+ full time clubs with good TV money from international providers not just Sky and a platform for negotiations of the TV rights next time around.

Anyway, time for my elevenses, a think that was the tea trolley ?

I think that's fair Printer, I suppose the question is whether relegation will allow them to rebuild to where they were, or acause further damage?

When you boil it down, SL needs the strongest teams in the top flight, strength is measured in a number of ways imo, not just on the field (which it can be argued is what the current system measures).

If people cared about the game and not just their own team, they'd want the strongest most stable teams in the top flight to create a higher quality competition. It shouldn't matter if the team is from Leigh, Toronto, Catalan, Featherstone or Timbuktu.

I'd like to think there's room for Catalans, Leigh, Toronto, Toulouse & London in an expanded Super League. Each with an academy and a reserve grade team.

Other than the drama and jeopardy I struggle to see what good P&R does. Widnes are a good example of a club who benefited from the protection of the franchise, they improved each year and as has been mentioned they are producing first team players through their academy now. However this year they've obviously took 3 steps back. They sold their best player and showed no ambition to try and sign someone of similar quality. Would they have been more willing to invest in quality if they knew they were guaranteed to be in Super League next year?

To improve the quality of the competition in the long term you need to significantly increase the pool of players, this can be achieved through expansion as well as investing in the junior game in the heartlands. Clubs need to be have the stability and resource to invest in academies, reserve grades and coaching. Get more players playing the game and importantly, have the facilities to retain them when they get to 18-19.

Excellent post.

Well said Vasty.

Of course Catalan offer SL more in terms of profile, TV contracts, sponsorship and a access to a bigger player pool than Leigh, but that shouldn't be a reason to keep them in SL by default.

quite simply they recruited the wrong coach in Fresseynous, have bought some terrible players while allowing the better French talent to go elsewhere in SL and seem to have no team spirit at all. It's been a shocking mis-management from where they were under Trent Robinson where teams used to fear going to France and they always had an advantage in the transfer market due to the lifestyle on offer in the South of France.

In some ways relegation could help them, they would be allowed to release all the deadwood and start afresh. As much as it pains me to say it HullKR are in a stronger position now post-relegation than they were 12 months ago.

Rugby League needs to get to a place where relegation to the Championship isn't seen as a death sentence, it is seen as a blow but a place to re-build and come back stronger.