that isnt what is said, or what the article says.

The point of it wasnt that Cas had a lower attendances last year vs 2014, but that Cas lost £100k in revenue in the super 8s compared to the same fixtures in 2015.

Before people did their best chippy northern rugby league fan impression and got super defensive about their super smashing great new system, the point made by Steve Gill and myself was how do we address the fact that fans lose interest and stop coming when we switch to the super 8s.

The absolute total is meaningless when there are a variable number of games.

If you have a problem with how the YEP article is written take it up with them. But Steve Gill has pretty clearly described how it lost money for them.



i have literally no interest in it. But feel to do whatever makes you feel worthwhile.

Not if you have fixed outgoings. As I stated. Sell more tickets with the same costs and your laughing regardless of averages.

It's the age old debate of high price low frequency and low price high frequency. The story here is that Castleford expected to match their earlier games in terms of attendance and failed to do so. As others have pointed out - there are numerous explanations for this, and the structure is merely 1 of those.

None of these things give any indication to the overall affect the new structure have on the financial health of clubs.

i was hoping maybe someone else had some ideas, or maybe that clubs were putting some things in place. But it seems no-one has any.

Its pretty disappointing though to see our season kicks off on a thursday night in february with a run of the mill game against Wire. Perhaps a standalone replay of the GF, for a trophy honouring one of our legends would grow in to one of those sell outs we are needing.

Perhaps moving the magic weekend to the first weekend of the super 8s would negate some of the issues people mention regarding short notice.

Perhaps instead of bemoaning the terrible thursday attendances, we could spend a bit of time and money marketing them. Perhaps like Wigan have done previously with Heinz, working with large local employers to get big numbers to attend. Perhaps working with schools, junior clubs, youth organisations etc.

Maybe we could show a bit of ambition with the WCS. Maybe we could use it as a tool to get the game in to the public consciousness. Maybe if we shell out a bit of money we could get maybe 100k/120k to attend, some of those will go from first time fans attracted by the big glamorous event to occasional attenders, then regular attenders, then eventually fans.

Perhaps a few 'all access' season tickets could be sold at a premium, so all home games, away games, finals, internationals, cup games, other teams games.

You had plenty of interest in it a few months ago. Pages of interest in fact, pages and pages and pages. You were quoting people out of context left right and centre....

But now that your posts of a few months ago completely contradict the crap you're spouting in this thread you've got no interest in it.

Classic Smokey.

Please change the title of the thread if you want people to take it seriously too.

no, even if you have fixed outgoings. It doesnt tell you anything other than how many games you played that year.

the comparison wasnt income to outgoings, it was attendances in different years.


And to be clear, im not even arguing the super 8s caused them to go down, simply that A) they did go down, and B) the idea that was sold to us, that it would attract people in and of itself, is clearly bunkum.

Which was actually my point. Wider than any specific loss at a specific club. We were told the Super 8s would attract people, the intensity, the competitiveness, the 'every minute matters' nonsense, the 'everyone having something to play for' part of it. We were told this was what was going to attract them. That clearly hasnt happened, and it wont.

So im asking what will, and even as i said at the beginning, Sky arent going to just give up Thursdays, and the big wigs at the RFL have forced this through, when it goes, their position is untenable, so it isnt changing. What are clubs doing under this system, knowing thursdays are staying to improve crowds generally, and to address the loss that stems from a game being a super 8s game rather than a regular game?

I had as much interest then as i do now as to whether you want to go searching back through posts. I.e none. Do whatever makes you happy. It really is your choice. You dont need my permission.

And what evidence do you have that SL clubs aren't thinking about how they could improve attendances at their club in this year's Super 8's? Because only 3 days in 2016 they haven't come out and e-mailed you about it?

You want me to provide proof something doesnt exist? You can keep definitely keep that rabbithole to yourself. Last time it led you up some very dark paths with James Child.

Do you have any evidence the clubs/the rfl are doing some great work to improve attendances? Are they trying a new approach to sales and marketing by not telling anyone?

I'm asking you how do you know clubs aren't thinking of ideas to improve Super 8's attendances, especially considering the article you shared at the start said Cas are working on ideas on how to improve the Super 8 attendances in 2016.

And as i said, im not going down the rabbit hole of trying to prove a negative with you. Im certainly not going to try and prove a negative i havent claimed.

Ill ask once again, do you have any evidence the clubs/rfl are doing good work to improve attendances? also, if so what?

Cracking thread Grommit

after 69 days, it took just 6 hours.

Are Leigh doing anything interesting or will they be stunning the world with 3.5k again next year?

What you said, when people were posting positive attendance stories at the beginning of the season, was something along the lines of "this is the first year of the new format so we've nothing to compare against and won't have until the end of 2016." You repeated it umpteen times in every attendance thread, like you do.

Yet here we are 3 days into 2016 and you're completely contradicting yourself (again) by comparing crowds from the first year of this new format with crowds from a different format.

So all your foot stomping tonight about ONE CLUB losing money (when they didn't actually lose money) is absolutely pointless.... according to you.

I'm done. Have a nice evening arguing with yourself.



PS. please change the thread title, it's very misleading. Unless you actually believe it in which case please post some proof.

On the previous page you wrote....."i was hoping maybe someone else had some ideas, or maybe that clubs were putting some things in place. But it seems no-one has any."

Seems you did claim it.



I've truely (unlike yourself) have never claimed they have. I merely asked how do you know the clubs aren't thinking of possible ways to address Super 8 attendance issues......a question you're avoiding and trying to turn onto me because the simple answer what you refuse to admit is that you don't know.

Nah, i didnt.

I think what you are mixing it up with is when i pointed out the flaw in your round on round comparison (you remember the one you were telling us in round 9 was showing huge increases in attendance, i was telling you your comparison was flawed and you were setting yourself up for a fall because your flawed and incomplete data wasnt showing, nor indicating the substantial rise you were insisting it was, how'd that work out btw?)

I did say there isnt a great comparison between this season and last because all of them have flaws and can be spun. And other than pointing out that crowds were down, i have generally stayed away from comparing this years and last years attendances. Because such a comparison is flawed (only a moron for instance would compare 2 games to 4 games) and not really of all that much importance. For many reasons.

Which is why i havent simply said crowds are down this year on last and ergo its a disaster. I have used a variety of different indicators. Such as the total, such as trends, such as games within the same season. You will also see that i havent argued the new structure has caused attendances to go down, simply that it hasnt created the increase we were told it was.

The funniest part of this is the exact contradiction you are accusing me of, is in fact the one you yourself are guilty of. It was you who argued that these comparisons were valid, it was you who argued they would show us a valid representation of change and werent flawed, and you who argued vehemently that we should make that comparison. I simply said they were flawed and can be spun (which they can)

this is the best part though

you have gone to all this effort and only managed to highlight your own hypocrisy, all to prove a point which even if you had gotten correct, was completely irrelevant.

The loss i and steve gill referred didnt ever refer to a comparison between different formats. It referred to this year. It was a comparison between attendances between the same teams, at the same ground, under the same format, in the same year. All 6 of Cas' attendances used in the comparison happened in 2015.

HTH

And do they, or does it seem that they do not?

Are you really trying to argue that the complete absence of evidence that they do, it is not reasonable to conclude that it seems they dont?

let me ask, what evidence are you looking for here? besides the complete absence of these things, what does evidence they dont exist look like?

Ill readily admit and be perfectly happy to state that i do not have proof the clubs and RFL dont have a secret marketing plan that they have yet to give any indication of. Which is coincidentally exactly the same amount of evidence you have the RFL arent trying to assassinate the pope and replace him with John Hartson.

Thats the inherent idiocy with asking for proof of a negative and why smart people dont do it.

Must be a dull preseason for the Smokey household

Given Leigh play in a league where some clubs average is in the hundreds, 3.5k is not a bad figure

Oh no like it's brilliant. Perfect in fact. As good as it can possibly be. Like everything else in rugby league thanks to the new super smashing great system. They along with every other clubs have entirely fulfilled their potential and are now beyond criticism or any expectation. The entire game can now sit back, feet up, and do nothing but watch the good times roll. All our problems are solved.

You're doing a sterling job in growing the game with your endless rants on an internet forum by the way, keep up the good work.

Thanks. You aren't so bad yourself. That chippy northerner stereotype doesn't look after its self so it's a good job so many on here are willing to do it for free.

I mean if it wasn't for the usual suspects telling us there is no problems, everything's going perfectly, don't take about it,who knows where we will be.

We should stick to the approved topics like which kits we like and how well we did for ourselves selling nearly 80% of the tickets for the Olympic stadium.

No no no, the credit is all yours, I couldn't possibly compare to your 21000 posts. I wouldn't have time you see, im too busy making an actual difference.

Brilliant. I sincerely hope you are. Don't hide it under a bushel. Let us know, what new and interesting things are you doing to help? Throw us some success stories about getting new people to games. Getting us new fans. If your ideas are working well spread them and then more people can use them and our growth can be exponential.