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| Quote ="Durham Giant"Apart from the fact that Yorkshire and Lancashire are not "races" nor are they definitions of sexuality nor is Bstard.
and therefore the RFL would not find it racist or Homphobic your point is valid
They may find it parochial or insulting though'"
Use of "Foul and Abusive" language is a 1-3 match ban (grade B-C) - whereas "Verbal abuse based on race, colour, religion, gender, sexual preference, national or ethnic origin" is a 4-8+ (grade E-F) so you could still get a ban.
If the RFL start enforcing the letter of the law teams are gonna need [i much [/ibigger squads
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| I'd like to know how Zac felt the first time he saw the clip. Gutted I would imagine and he'll know what an idiot he's been and he must realise he's making it easy for his critics. I wouldn't mind betting that he's had a right royal b@ll0cking from his bosses at Leeds
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| Quote ="leeds owl"I hope we have a thread this long calling for an England player to be banned for 8 games if dares to call an Australian player an "Aussie bar steward", or likewise an Aussie for daring to call an England player a "pommie t!!t". Abuse of any player based on sexuality, colour or even where you come from is defined in exactly the same way. The next time anyone from over the big hill decides to chant "Dirty Yorkshire bar steward" you are breaking the law as layed down by the RFL. It is every bit as bad as homophobic or racist chanting, not my opinion, the RFL's opinion.'"
They are not as bad, and they are not the same thing. You need to educate yourself. Aussies/English/Yorkshiremen are all the same race of people and are treated equally in every way by society. Homophobia and racism have nothing to do with these groups of people insulting each other.
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This nonsense of describing Hardaker's actions as a trial by social media is very wearing and shows the narrow mindedness of those that state it. Those on social media are members of the public. As a member of the public it is well within reason for us to point out those whom are actually breaking the law or indeed the possibility that a law has being broken, to stand back and do nothing isn't acceptable now and it never should be, that's why we have massive social problems within families and on the streets, in the classroom down the pub and in the workplace because far too many are happy to stand by (or indeed join in) and let criminal activity and social unacceptable behaviour carry on without a care.
In this case it just happens to be a RL player in the middle of a match, that in itself shouldn't have any bearing on whether a law was broken. One could cite an assault to the person, just because it is a rubgy match doesn't exclude that a member of the public could report an assault where one player punches the crud out of another (i'm surprised fewer cases come about tbh).
That a player makes homophobic/hateful comments to another human being is in itself against the law (unlike sexist comments which aren't at present) and just because an organisation/employerand/or the officials may choose to ignore what was obvious that doesn't stop members of the public from reporting it. If that be through social media (as in the case of other criminal offences in recent times) it matters not. That an offence 'possibly' has being commited should be investigated, that Hardakers comments a few months back could warrant a caution from the police as he would if he made the comment to another in the high street from some quarters means he got off lightly with ban from plying his trade at his place of work.
IF he is found guilty and that is by no means certain then he should be rightly castigated and given a final warning as to his conduct, this would send the message to all players AND indeed fans that crossing the line isn't acceptable both socially and within the confines of the law.
If the RFL aren't 100% sure they must still advise the player that his conduct is unbecoming and against operational player conduct rules (foul language).
Personally I'm not 100% sure he says 'poof', however his action of blowing a kiss beforehand leans toward it. I think the lad needs help, either to help him control his anger and also to help with him maybe being a closet homosexual.
There are studies that suggest those that make such comments are indeed such. www.ibtimes.com/homophobes-likel ... nds-434958
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This nonsense of describing Hardaker's actions as a trial by social media is very wearing and shows the narrow mindedness of those that state it. Those on social media are members of the public. As a member of the public it is well within reason for us to point out those whom are actually breaking the law or indeed the possibility that a law has being broken, to stand back and do nothing isn't acceptable now and it never should be, that's why we have massive social problems within families and on the streets, in the classroom down the pub and in the workplace because far too many are happy to stand by (or indeed join in) and let criminal activity and social unacceptable behaviour carry on without a care.
In this case it just happens to be a RL player in the middle of a match, that in itself shouldn't have any bearing on whether a law was broken. One could cite an assault to the person, just because it is a rubgy match doesn't exclude that a member of the public could report an assault where one player punches the crud out of another (i'm surprised fewer cases come about tbh).
That a player makes homophobic/hateful comments to another human being is in itself against the law (unlike sexist comments which aren't at present) and just because an organisation/employerand/or the officials may choose to ignore what was obvious that doesn't stop members of the public from reporting it. If that be through social media (as in the case of other criminal offences in recent times) it matters not. That an offence 'possibly' has being commited should be investigated, that Hardakers comments a few months back could warrant a caution from the police as he would if he made the comment to another in the high street from some quarters means he got off lightly with ban from plying his trade at his place of work.
IF he is found guilty and that is by no means certain then he should be rightly castigated and given a final warning as to his conduct, this would send the message to all players AND indeed fans that crossing the line isn't acceptable both socially and within the confines of the law.
If the RFL aren't 100% sure they must still advise the player that his conduct is unbecoming and against operational player conduct rules (foul language).
Personally I'm not 100% sure he says 'poof', however his action of blowing a kiss beforehand leans toward it. I think the lad needs help, either to help him control his anger and also to help with him maybe being a closet homosexual.
There are studies that suggest those that make such comments are indeed such. www.ibtimes.com/homophobes-likel ... nds-434958
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Quote ="FearTheVee"I don't remember Leeds fans being so outraged about trial by social media here:
His gesture during a controversial and compelling game outraged RL fans who swamped message boards with complaints.
One wrote: “Silly boy – it’s things like this that make people dislike him and it will do nothing to endear him to the RL public.”
www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-lea ... z3CAbbyoPX
Was that in the match report? Any complaints from the field?'"
Poor comparison.
If Hardaker did use the word puff then it was directed at someone on the field.
Tomkins V-sign was aimed towards the crowd.
Two completely different incidents and whereas there's conflicting lip-reading efforts by everybody on here i don't think anybody even Wigan fans could argue that it wasn't a V-sign Tomkins flashed up.
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Quote ="FearTheVee"I don't remember Leeds fans being so outraged about trial by social media here:
His gesture during a controversial and compelling game outraged RL fans who swamped message boards with complaints.
One wrote: “Silly boy – it’s things like this that make people dislike him and it will do nothing to endear him to the RL public.”
www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-lea ... z3CAbbyoPX
Was that in the match report? Any complaints from the field?'"
Poor comparison.
If Hardaker did use the word puff then it was directed at someone on the field.
Tomkins V-sign was aimed towards the crowd.
Two completely different incidents and whereas there's conflicting lip-reading efforts by everybody on here i don't think anybody even Wigan fans could argue that it wasn't a V-sign Tomkins flashed up.
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"Poor comparison.
If Hardaker did use the word puff then it was directed at someone on the field.
Tomkins V-sign was aimed towards the crowd.
Two completely different incidents and whereas there's conflicting lip-reading efforts by everybody on here i don't think anybody even Wigan fans could argue that it wasn't a V-sign Tomkins flashed up.'"
I'm responding to the incredulity that the RFL could dare to look at something not in a match report or reported by a player (thereby succumbing to "trial by Twitter"icon_wink.gif, not comparing the two incidents themselves.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"I have no problem with the RFL investigating.
I dont think he said 'puff' i dont know that he didnt. I wouldnt criticise those who think he did say 'puff' but didnt know that he did.
I think those who know that he did are clearly lying and deserve any and all criticism that comes their way.'"
..but you are claiming that just because you didn't see it therefore it didn't happen and no-one is correct apart from you?
Seems like plenty of others beg to differ.
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"He might have said "pussy", but that is arguably as homophobic, in the context of a blown kiss.'"
Is it?
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| Quote ="Tre Cool"He blew a kiss at him. Homophobic.'"
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| Quote ="mark_m"..but you are claiming that just because you didn't see it therefore it didn't happen and no-one is correct apart from you?
Seems like plenty of others beg to differ.'"
Read his post again. Nobody knows. Believe what you want but nobody knows. Until the incident is investigated, any calls for a punishment are premature and a little bit pathetic. That is that.
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| I agree, calling someone a f'king pussy isn't in the least homophobic, pretty low down on the scale of language in fact even with the addition of the blown kiss (which was a bit weak as it happens).
The RFL would need to be absolutely sure before making any decisions, on what has being shown it is not entirely clear as to what was said and unless they want to explode things further (doubtful) it may well end with a ticking off because the legal ramifications of any dubious evidence could impinge hugely on the sport as a whole.
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| It's not clear what he says from the video clip posted or to those who have the game recorded. If you state you 'know' he said 'Puff', you're a) lying, or b) allowing team or player bias to cloud your judgement, even subconciously. The same goes for those who 'know' he didn't say 'puff', but rather something else.
If the RFL feel an investigation is necessary, that's fine. An investigation is just that - they want to find out the truth of what's happened, and realistically there's nothing wrong with that. I'm sure we all want to know the truth, and I'm sure the RFL have access to many more angles and recordings of the incident than we do, so it's hopeful they will find out the truth moreso than any of us guessing.
I am interested in how this came to their attention - a complaint from the referee or another player is understandable, but if it was people complaining on social media, whilst I'm not complaining about that exactly, I do wonder if it only counts for verbal abuse fans believe they saw, or if it could be anything in the frame of a game. How many times have we shouted that a tackle was high, or dangerous, that someone has committed a professional foul, yet the referee hasn't seen it? If we make enough threads about it on RLFans, or complain on Twitter, will that also lead to the player in question being 'under investigation'? I'd not being sarcastic, I genuinely wonder if this is something that would happen. If not, why?
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| so as swearing at other players is classed as foul and abusive language, should no action be taken by the referee can we, as fans, ask for it to be investigated?
or foul play? or anything we don't like?
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| Quote ="Omar Little"I don't disagree with you. I have however seen other suggest blowing the kiss was in itself implicitly homophobic regardless of what was said (which is ridiculous).
I would like to know the context that Hardaker was responding to but I have neither the time nor the means of finding a video of the incident to try and deduce what Flanagan said. However, if the RFL are going to investigate they should feel obliged to do so. The original eagle eyed viewer sadly only provided an isolated clip.'"
Think it was Flanagan bending his leg right back, Hardaker effectively responding, "is that the best you can do?"
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| Quote ="mark_m"..but you are claiming that just because you didn't see it therefore it didn't happen and no-one is correct apart from you?
Seems like plenty of others beg to differ.'"
it only says that if you can't read.
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| Quote ="Les Norton"So, it appears that no complaint was made by a player, nor was it included on the Ref's match report. It seems the incident is being investigated after pressure from Social media.
A big well done everybody! Let's hope there's consistency shown from you all. Let's make sure we're all as keen on Thursday night during the Saints - Warrington game. Let trial by social media commence..... Who needs referees?'"
what does your lawyer say on the matter?
you know, the one that said he was ok last time and there was no case to answer?
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| Quote ="Les Norton"So, it appears that no complaint was made by a player, nor was it included on the Ref's match report. It seems the incident is being investigated after pressure from Social media.
A big well done everybody! Let's hope there's consistency shown from you all. Let's make sure we're all as keen on Thursday night during the Saints - Warrington game. Let trial by social media commence..... Who needs referees?'"
Do you know for certain that no player reported it or that it wasn't in the ref's report?
Even if that was the case, the RFL review every game anyway so it could have been picked up then.
This suggestion that he is being investigated purely because of what has been said on the Internet is ridiculous.
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| If the RFL charge hardaker again Id like to see this dragged to the court of arbitration for sport. He has been subjected to trial by twitter and our clueless administrators have just jumped on a PC bandwagon. If he charged for calling a player thats just tried to injure him a prick the RFL will need to ban any player caught swearing in any game. No one would be able to put a team out within a fortnight.
The RFL have proved just how clueless they are tonight by clearing Liam Farrell of a shocking high late challenge.
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Why has Hardakers got his tongue out while Wellens is kissing his arm in the OP,s link.
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Why has Hardakers got his tongue out while Wellens is kissing his arm in the OP,s link.
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| Lol at the Leeds fans in this thread
Regards
King james
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| Quote ="rhino phil"If the RFL charge hardaker again Id like to see this dragged to the court of arbitration for sport. He has been subjected to trial by twitter and our clueless administrators have just jumped on a PC bandwagon. If he charged for calling a player thats just tried to injure him a prick the RFL will need to ban any player caught swearing in any game. No one would be able to put a team out within a fortnight.
The RFL have proved just how clueless they are tonight by clearing Liam Farrell of a shocking high late challenge.'"
He's not being investigated for swearing or calling someone a pri**. He's being investigated if he made homophobic comments.
Leeds wouldn't have a case if they took it to court. He's not had a trial, so how is it trial by twitter? If he's charged by the RFL THEN he gets a trial.
Although I agree on Liam Farrell incident, no idea how he's escaped that.
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| Quote ="Omar Little"This is fundamentally wrong (both in terms of the Law analogy and the RFL disciplinary, but especially in the former where it is a basic legal principle). Past behaviour can never be used to judge guilt.
It can be taken into account in sentencing *after* someone is found guilty.'"
You are talking about criminal proceedings which has already been proven otherwise.
I was talking about none criminal decision making, were similar fact evidence has been used for a long time.
I used to use it myself. But like I said this was not in a criminal setting.
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| It’s been a while since I visited this thread, I found it highly amusing on the night, but then it became a tad tedious.
To be honest I became bored of the pseudo disgust & blind loyalty. What next, the illegitimate lobby getting on someone’s back when some player’s called a B@std, or maybe the female genitalia crew being outraged.
However on revisiting, am I led to believe that some people are of the opinion that the ranting’s of certain posters on here are responsible for Hardaker being investigated
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| Quote ="The Devil's Advocate"It’s been a while since I visited this thread, I found it highly amusing on the night, but then it became a tad tedious.
To be honest I became bored of the pseudo disgust & blind loyalty. What next, the illegitimate lobby getting on someone’s back when some player’s called a B@std, or maybe the female genitalia crew being outraged.
However on revisiting, am I led to believe that some people are of the opinion that the ranting’s of certain posters on here are responsible for Hardaker being investigated
'"
Whether it's responsible or not isn't actually the key point.
Because I'm a Leeds fan, people dismiss me not being offended/shocked/disgusted at Hardaker's possible actions.
Couldn't be further from the truth. Truth is on this board you'll struggle to find many more individuals who are more supportive of gay rights than myself. This is a large part of the reason I find the overwhelming outrage and 'support' of gay rights so cringeworthy/laughable/insincere.
As someone who genuinely cares about gay rights it's frustrating to know deep down (even though people will deny it) that the very same posters on here who are full of condemnation for Hardaker for blowing a kiss and possibly saying puff will barely bat an eyelid/care when a story appears on the news or in the papers about gay marriage, gay hate crimes, gay adoption, etc. Real serious issues about what effects gay peoples lives in terms of being truly treated equal.
But the moment a RL player possibly says an inappropriate word, fans of rivals clubs jump over it like they've been the strongest supporter of gay rights that have ever lived.
If the people on here gave the same energy/anger/fight-for-justice approach to all homophobic causes then the fight against it would be so much better off........but seems the true concern is how it effects their RL clubs chances/knobbles a club they don't like chances in the playoffs.
And no that isn't just a "jealous of Leeds" post.
It's the truth no matter how much you try and tell us and yourself that it isn't.
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"you'll struggle to find many more individuals who are more supportive of gay rights than myself. '"
...is that like "some of my friends are gay"?
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