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| Quote ="captaincaveman"He really has not. What he has is exactly what he bought and AFAIK no further endorsements have been made. There was nothing to stop him purchasing the company from OK prior to it going into administration with no points deducted but with the associated debts.
Instead he chose to buy from administration.'"
Its ridiculous to pretend it was a binary option. Marc Green is not responsible for OKbulls debts, nor for it going into administration. You are proposing an absolutely mental situation where MarcGreen and his business would deserve punishment simply because they didn't swoop in and altruistically pay for and to take on the debts of the failing OKBulls, including let's not forget, nigh on a million pounds to Omar Kahn himself.
Nobody wanted to buy OKbulls, without the administration procedure then that company goes bust, everyone there loses their jobs, and the club ceases to exist and no creditors get anything. That's it. Everyone loses.
I honestly can't believe anyone thinks it realistic that Marc Green simply gives away money to cover OKbulls mistakes, a business he never owned
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| Quote ="Wooden Stand"The points deduction is quite rightly a sporting sanction against THE CLUB as a result of an insolvency event. The Club thereby having cheated the other clubs by spending more on players than they could really afford. The points deduction against the cheating club helps most other clubs do better (finish higher up the league than they otherwise would etc) . The other clubs can therefore also do better financially (get into play-offs, higher prize money in the Championship etc). This all then helps redress the balance after the Club that went into Administration cheated in the first place eg maybe having cheated another club out of a play-off place or a cup match win etc.
Who thinks ok would do it again after all this?'"
Omar Kahn did not cheat by running a business poorly. He ran a business poorly.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"'Bradford' aren't going to do anything again. If BBNL do go bust, it will have nothing to do with a points deduction. Just as this points deduction didn't stop Omar Kahn putting his business into admin, should the time come a points deduction for the next owners would not influence Marc Green either.
The only people 'deterred' by this process are those who may wish to invest in one of our struggling clubs'"
So the answer is to do rock all and shrug our collective shoulders, sigh and wait for next time, which will get new investors forming a queue outside the door of every professional sporting organisation and help with our Sport England funding etc, etc,
Not to mention the sports credibility with HMRC and the poor souls that have lost jobs or cash in the whole debacle
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| It seems quite a few Bradford fans are avoiding the key question here. Based on the fact that a point deduction could not be raised to punish OK and as the company folded no fine could be used against them. Question to FA et al that has been asked but never answered.
What punishment do you feel Bradford Bull should have had against them?
They were punished with reduced Sky money and they are still not happy with that. So now they don't feel 6 points is fair so what is fair?
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"So the answer is to do rock all and shrug our collective shoulders, sigh and wait for next time, which will get new investors forming a queue outside the door of every professional sporting organisation and help with our Sport England funding etc, etc,
Not to mention the sports credibility with HMRC and the poor souls that have lost jobs or cash in the whole debacle
'" 6 points doesn't help, so why do you feel better about an utterly useless, if not counter-productive gesture like this?
You think any of those sat at home having lost money or their jobs feel better because of a points deduction to a completely different company? You think investors are attracted by the sporting penalty or demand they pay someone else's debts?
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| Quote ="Dannyboywt"It seems quite a few Bradford fans are avoiding the key question here. Based on the fact that a point deduction could not be raised to punish OK and as the company folded no fine could be used against them. Question to FA et al that has been asked but never answered.
What punishment do you feel Bradford Bull should have had against them?
They were punished with reduced Sky money and they are still not happy with that. So now they don't feel 6 points is fair so what is fair?'" im not a Bradford fan but nothing. They are a club which needs help to thrive, we don't achieve anything or further our goals in a anyway by punishing them now,
The people who deserve punishment are those who caused the situation, what has happened here is just whistling in the wind and hoping other clubs self interest means no one notices that the 6point achieves the square root of Fisk all worthwhile
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| [url=http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_14908-rfl-chasing-former-bulls-owner-for-sky-money.htmlPerson who ran club badly being punished for running club badly.[/url
So, why should the club continue to suffer?
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| So in theory based on this any owner can walk away and leave club in debt that will be cleared by admin? Then no punishement should be given as it was the previous owners fault?
Just trying to get the logic, if all debt are paid in full I would agree, if in part 2 point back. But without the facts of what has been paid back what is the zero based on?
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| Quote ="Dannyboywt"So in theory based on this any owner can walk away and leave club in debt that will be cleared by admin? Then no punishement should be given as it was the previous owners fault?
Just trying to get the logic, if all debt are paid in full I would agree, if in part 2 point back. But without the facts of what has been paid back what is the zero based on?'"
If the debts were paid then there was no need for administration. It's not nice but admin is a valid way of keeping a business going under new ownership.
No one at all, has yet given a valid reason or gain we get from punishing the new owners for what the old ones did, by the time a points deduction happens, the people who caused it are gone its irrelevant to them.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"Its ridiculous to pretend it was a binary option. Marc Green is not responsible for OKbulls debts, nor for it going into administration. You are proposing an absolutely mental situation where MarcGreen and his business would deserve punishment simply because they didn't swoop in and altruistically pay for and to take on the debts of the failing OKBulls, including let's not forget, nigh on a million pounds to Omar Kahn himself.
Nobody wanted to buy OKbulls, without the administration procedure then that company goes bust, everyone there loses their jobs, and the club ceases to exist and no creditors get anything. That's it. Everyone loses.
I honestly can't believe anyone thinks it realistic that Marc Green simply gives away money to cover OKbulls mistakes, a business he never owned'"
No I am absolutely not saying anything of the kind. He has not been punished, nor is he being punished. He bought the club in full knowledge that it was on -6 points.
No it was not a binary decision he could have bid to buy any other club, but he did not rock up to leeds or Wigan with a wheelbarrow full of cash did he?
If there is any punishment that has been handed out him I do not know of it
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| Quote ="captaincaveman"No I am absolutely not saying anything of the kind. He has not been punished, nor is he being punished. He bought the club in full knowledge that it was on -6 points.
No it was not a binary decision he could have bid to buy any other club, but he did not rock up to leeds or Wigan with a wheelbarrow full of cash did he?
If there is any punishment that has been handed out him I do not know of it'"
It's 6points you can pretend it isn't but is. It has to be a punishment of the new owner because the old one doesn't exist, and it can't be set prior to the purchase because as we have been told numerous times it is based on what is paid back.
He could have bid to buy another club, so could any owner that's just a nonsensical red herring.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"It's 6points you can pretend it isn't but is. It has to be a punishment of the new owner because the old one doesn't exist, and it can't be set prior to the purchase because as we have been told numerous times it is based on what is paid back.
He could have bid to buy another club, so could any owner that's just a nonsensical red herring.'"
It's not a red herring, he bought the club knowing the situation .
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"I reckon the point of the discussion has become to simply and repeatedly lie about what anybody from Bradford has stated, to claim their views are the opposite of what they post, and to repeat blatant misconceptions ad nauseam as if simple corrections had not in fact been offered a thousand times already. Knock yourselves out.'"
But no answer for this:
Quote ="captaincaveman"He really has not. What he has is exactly what he bought and AFAIK no further endorsements have been made. There was nothing to stop him purchasing the company from OK prior to it going into administration with no points deducted but with the associated debts.
Instead he chose to buy from administration.'"
That one post pretty much destroys the flimsy defence of any Bradford Bulls apologists
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| Quote ="The Avenger"But no answer for this:
That one post pretty much destroys the flimsy defence of any Bradford Bulls apologists'"
1. I am not a "Bulls apologist" whatever you may mean by that.
2. I am not making a "defence" of anything. Just commenting on events, facts and rules.
3. The thing that would have stopped him (or anyone) buying the club from OK (not that I am saying he would remotely have done so) was that OK already sold his shares and it is illegal to sell something twice. That sale became entangled in litigation which is still ongoing and due to this fact it would have been impossible for anyone to buy the club from anyone given nobody quite knows who legally owns the OKB shares. You thus propose an impossibility, even if we disregard that BBNL had not yet come into existence, nor that MG had no interest, and had expressed no desire, at that stage to own a RL club.
But as I said, crack on with your fantasies.
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| Had OK sold up then? I thought agreement had been reached but then the buyers reneged on paying therefore no sale of club to anyone and Green could have made an offer, or have I got it wrong?
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| Quote ="Traffic"Had OK sold up then? I thought agreement had been reached but then the buyers reneged on paying therefore no sale of club to anyone and Green could have made an offer, or have I got it wrong?'"
OK never sold up. He was moved out of the way by the club going into admin (something he clearly wanted to avoid given his agreement when buying the club that if they went back into admin within 12 months that he personally would be liable for any monies the club received). It seems that the potential owners were encouraged to take the club into admin to get rid of Khan by the RFL which is why they were surprised by the 6 point penalty as they seemed to be under the impression, rightly or wrongly, that as they were following the RFL's advice then no such penalty would be levelled against the club.
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| Cheers for that. So whilst it was highly unlikely anyone would buy the club, there was nothing stopping Mr Green from buying the club rather than putting into admin?
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| Quote ="Traffic"Had OK sold up then? I thought agreement had been reached but then the buyers reneged on paying therefore no sale of club to anyone and Green could have made an offer, or have I got it wrong?'"
Hey don't pee on his fireworks, it took him ages to come up with that convoluted claptrap and it helped him avoid answering the question.
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| Quote ="Traffic"Cheers for that. So whilst it was highly unlikely anyone would buy the club, there was nothing stopping Mr Green from buying the club rather than putting into admin?'"
You need to get with the programme .
The RFL told them to go into admin (allegedly) & if they did, no points deduction would be incurred, hence the official statement on the club website, which was quickly removed .
You just couldn’t make it up .
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| Quote ="roofaldo2"OK never sold up. '"
With respect he did. He sold his shares for £300K and was asked to, and did, agree to give a little time to pay, but never got the money.
The RFL told the buyers not to pay.
Quote ="roofaldo2"He was moved out of the way by the club going into admin (something he clearly wanted to avoid given his agreement when buying the club that if they went back into admin within 12 months that he personally would be liable for any monies the club received). It seems that the potential owners were encouraged to take the club into admin to get rid of Khan by the RFL which is why they were surprised by the 6 point penalty as they seemed to be under the impression, rightly or wrongly, that as they were following the RFL's advice then no such penalty would be levelled against the club.'"
Indeed. You could add that when everything fell through, OK wanted to buy the business back (presumably with an eye on the same reasons) but was stymied from doing so again by the RFL.
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| Quote ="The Avenger"Hey don't pee on his fireworks, it took him ages to come up with that convoluted claptrap and it helped him avoid answering the question.'"
I helpfully and patiently explain the facts. Take it or leave it, I don't care. If you have a valid question I'll be happy to answer it.
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| Absolute rubbish. What actually happened after Bradford Bulls went bust big style for the second time in 2 years was that executives from the rugby league spent an awful lot of time and effort in meetings etc to help the Administrator find a suitable buyer of the Club.
As if any business man, let alone those that walked away, would do anything the rugby league or anybody else "told" them to do if they didn't want to.
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| Quote ="Wooden Stand"Absolute rubbish....'"
...but then he does have standards to keep up
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| Quote ="captaincaveman"It's not a red herring, he bought the club knowing the situation .'"
It's entirely a red herring, the RFL could have decide do make him tickle his under carriage with a cockerel if he bought the club, still doesn't make right, worthwhile or sensible as a way to run the sport just because someone had said it before hand and it adds no legitimacy to it just because it was known about
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| Quote ="Traffic"Cheers for that. So whilst it was highly unlikely anyone would buy the club, there was nothing stopping Mr Green from buying the club rather than putting into admin?'"
There was nothing to stop you or me or Michael Carter buying it either. Not really sure that's worthy of a points deduction though and I'm not sure what the point of deducting everyone who didn't buy the bulls when owned by Omar Kahn would be.
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