NO


England are going backwards, it's nothing to do with not playing as GB though. Playing the same tournament every year is starting to drag too. Wales and France increasing standards? Really?


Some clubs are better served, others are not. There are more clubs ready for super league than there are places, with the current financial structure in the game it is only fair to have promotion and relegation every year.


the majority of things in rugby league are better now than they were before super league, but it still should be much better than it is. it has gone backwards the last few years in terms of the quality of play, the refereeing standards and the end product in terms of England teams

1. its not a gentlemans club is franchising, thats just people making stuff up on internet message boards. the RFL has basically made every major call correctly in running the game for the best interests of the game

2. you dont have 28 clubs being able to compete at the top level of the game. you really dont even have 14, more like 6 or 7. there isnt the money to fund 28 teams fully professionally either

3. clubs being picked solely over others due to expansion potential is important for the future of the game. if you really dont understand this then you need help. you basically only have 3 expansion spots out of 14 teams, thats not a lot. its not as if its 50/50 between heartland and expansion.

4. its up to clubs to perform. if there were enough goo d championship clubs and the SL clubs were performing i believe the RFL would slowly expand the number of clubs in SL but its just added 2 more spots, its too soon to do it again. maybe 5 years down the track if all the current members grow/perform

Certainly fitter and faster, but I don't think the flare and skill is the same as other era's.

I am a fan of P&R ( I know I should get with the programme as directed), I believe its important that clubs who achieve success on the field should be rewarded, its a bit unfair if a club has success as a team, but are pipped to an SL spot because a team that comes 4th has a better ground and a rich chairman.

For me SL has some good points, but it also has some poor points as well.

same as in the nrl

its due to the 10 m. game making it faster and less role for old style RL halfbacks and five eigths

1. It is a Gentlemans club, The only people with any real say over how you can gain entry into SL are those already in it. And they look out for themselves.

2. That number was purely an example, Point is. If we have 13 clubs capable of operating at SL level than have a 13 team top flight. If another 2 championship clubs prove themselves worthy of top flight footy then let them in. So what if Leeds get a reduction in TV monies, Its about the good of the game and clubs need to become self sufficiant anyway. ( Leeds was used purely as an example ).

3. Having clubs playing Rugby league all over the country and the world would be great, But only if built on solid foundations. I would be happy if Expansion clubs got a larger slice of the TV monies at first, with the amount being reduced to Traditional club levels in installments to help them get set up. But i dont see why you should have to Sacrifice clubs to do it. 20, 30, 40 pro clubs could only be good for the game, and as supporter numbers grow so would TV money. The only way we will ever be able to compete with the ausies is to have that many clubs producing their own players and running academies. Obviously we are a far way from those numbers now, but as things stand there is no hope of us ever getting there because the only way we will gain a pro club is by killing another one.

4.Yes its up to clubs to perform, But its also up to the rfl to help them and give them clear solid goals with clear and precise rewards. Fev could spend the next 3 years building a great club, Full Academy and get their stadium in shape. They could double their core support and post a profit each year. Their chances of gaining entry into SL after this would still be verry thin. Im not worried about Clubs having to cope with a reduction in TV money, The SL clubs have had enough funding over the years and time to get their houses in order.

1. its not a gentelmans clubs. its a professional organization making the best decisions for the future of the sport. if some of those decisions dont help out all clubs so be it. theres always a minority who get left behind

2. the rfl has said before theyll look at expanding the number of SL clubs if there were enough "good" champ. clubs. there arent now so your point is moot

3. im not saying we should expand to places with no RL history, im more than aware that expansion can only work with a strong heartland. at the moment the heartland isnt strong enough, there are only really 6 strong heartland clubs across the hole game, the rest are average to poor.

4. the RFL have provided a clear road map for what it takes champ. clubs to get into SL. some clubs have listened and done everything the RFL have wanted like widnes, and they will be rewarded for that with a SL spot. theres no conspiracires, just maximise all the franchise criteria and any champ. club can get into sL, be it featherstone, leigh or even barrow. other than wides no other champ. club is close to a SL spot today. not close

The clubs who built the league, the clubs who actually have something to sell are the ones who control what they have to sell. Well surprise surprise
and then leeds dont have as much money, dont put on as good a product, sky are willing to pay less for it, and so they have less money next time round, the product they put on is poorer, sky pay less for it, they have less money next time round, and so on and so forth. Yeah that sounds good for the game.

Those playing numbers will only come from expansion. It wont come from the place we already take all our players from and the TV money to sustain it comes from having a nationwide profile.

Fev could double their core support, In fact they could triple and rightly they would still struggle to get a franchise. Thankfully the game has moved away from clubs with 2/3/4/5k fans competing, this is a sign of strength not weakness. There is next to no industry in Fev so they will struggle for sponsors, they will struggle for corporate support, they will struggle for players as there are 5 other clubs in the immediate area, this again is a sign of strength not weakness.
Bringing in any side which doesnt have the potential to be better than we already have is pointless. If Fev only have the potential to be a poorer version of Wakefield, and Wakefield are damaged by not being in SL, what is the point in relegating Wakefield and seeing Fev promoted, taking that limited funding and putting it in to strengthening Fev? It would be worse the pointless, it would be counter--productive.

You seem to be also forgetting that the TV money is from the sale of Tv rights which belong to the SL clubs.

Its a Profesional organisation making the best decisions possible for the few clubs in SL. I cant be bothered answering by numbers, The magic number of 14 is not based on the number of good well run clubs that could operate at SL level. Its just a number based on how much the 14 SL clubs are willing to split the pot. The RFL are probably thankfull as hell that Wakey are on the rack, makes the Decision so much easier when the franchises are handed out. Had Wakey not gone and messed up the RFL would have had to expell a club from SL even if it had proven to be worthy of a place, just slightly less worthy than other clubs based on Weighted criteria. Its insane that the only way we can get a new club into SL is by expelling another, Its sheer idiocy of the highest sort.

Should Wakey be refused a franchise by the RFL ( Highly likely ) then it will take that club many years to recover, far more than it would have taken had they been relegated on the pitch. Clubs should only be kicked out of SL thanks to gross missmanagment ( Going into Admin ) or failing to compete over multiple years, showing they do not have the support structures in place to put a competative side out at SL level.

Widnes are basically no different now than they were 3 years ago , just now there is a bigger gap between their administration than there was before , Steve O Connors offer of 500 K guarantee should have got them a SL spot last time

No heartland club will get into SL again until a current SL club financially collapses , and as the most likely ones to have that difficulty are expansion clubs , the RFL will do all in their power to protect those clubs , so not much to look forward in that case

Personally I think the Championship clubs need to sit down together and decide what they want their future to be , if they can agree that they are unlikely ever to get a fair rub of the green on entry into SL , then work together to build the Championships , they need to do this outside the direct control of the RFL , because I actually believe the RFL don't want strong heartland clubs in the Championship , as it will hinder their plans for expansion

I'd agree about the RFL and Wakeys problems ,they will be quietly happy the decision has been taken away

As for the 2nd part of your post , what do you suggest should happen to keep interest in the clubs below SL ?

Can't disagree with much of that tho' wouldn't it be anti-RL for the RFL not to invest in the lower leagues ? putting all their eggs in one basket could be disasterous for the SL because times will get harder and SL clubs will collapse over time - it's not in the interests of the RFL to have a weakened C/C1 surely ?

If you intend bringing expansion clubs through the Championships as per Celtic Crusaders , having strong heartland clubs makes it more difficult , Celtic were way out of their depth , but the ' spin ' machine kept telling all and sundry how well they were doing

Also the RFL would not want heartland clubs in the Championship getting bigger attendances than current SL clubs ( primarily the expansion clubs ) as that also diminishes the expansion theory

So yes I do believe it is in the interests of the RFL to have weak heartland clubs in the Championship

That is some of your best spurious nonsense.

The idea that the 'expansion theory' matters at all to anyone outside boards like these is mental, let alone the RFL deliberately holding back part of the its game to protect it.

The RFL want bigger better heartland clubs in the championships, even without the inherent benefits that would bring at that level, it would be a better, more fertile breeding ground for expansions clubs, and would provide more, better players for SL clubs, strengthening that part of the game.

Give over Starbug.How were Celtic out of their depth when they made it to the Grand Final in 2008?

The RFL are disappointed with the poor relative performance of the current expansion clubs in the Championships , it is plain none of them are going to be pushing through to challenge for a SL place in the next 12/15 years , so where do the RFL find more expansion ? , the stronger the Championships , the harder it is to bring clubs through it

Are you referring to on field , or off field ?

bollox, the RFL dont need an expansion club to be dominating the championships to promote them.

Besides, how many expansion sides are in the championships? 3? They arent desperate to get Skolars in SL, and they wont even look at it without some huge investment.

Toulouse arent far away, they will have a push and probably be in in 2015

South Wales seem to be doing ok, but they are what a year old,

So there is very little for them to be disappointed with.

If they can't dominate in the Championship they will just become another mess like the Crusaders


I've no doubt they hoped the Skolars would be doing better than they have done , they will improve on field off the back of Quins junior development , but off field little has changed since they started

Toulouse are the next one in , depending if somebody does a ' wakey ' who is not already an expansion club , but they shouldn't be in the Championships anyway

SWS are doing ok and should have no problems on field , the proof for them will be if they can find the finance

The big let down for the RFL is Gateshead , basically no more than a summer conference on field and not enough interest off field

But no more to come through in the way the RFL want them to

bollox.

Ive no doubt they had hoped everyone would be doing better than they are doing, but Skolars arent a serious proposition at the moment and nobody pretends they are.
so in what way are they disappointing?
and in what way are they disappointing.

Why are gateshead a disappointment. Nobody seriously thought they would be ready now,.

To the Original Poster...the answer is yes.

Attendances at games have risen steadily sinse SL started after they had fallen prior to 1996...so therefore, the supporters are getting what they want.
Now...if you were to ask a supporter of a non-superleague club this question you will get a mixed response....with some saying it's rubbish, others saying that their team deserve to be in SL......whilst some will say sod SL...the Championship is better........but in general, the majority of supporters who attend games of RL in the United Kingdom attend SL games......

I have no real issue with what you are saying... and this is a point not about superleague... (which I wholeheartedly supported even when Trinity were left out at the start)... but I need to pick you up on one point

Wakefield Trinity are NOT facing potential relegation....










they are facing potential extinction!

and IMO that too has nothing to do with the structure of the league.

What do fans want?

Personally I want:

1. My club to be well run and long term sustainable
2. Decent grounds to watch games at
3. High quality strongly contested games
4. Different clubs winning trophies
5. Growing National profile
6. Strong Int game
7. Growing jnr participation numbers
8. Decent media covg
9. Strong leagues at all levels of the game

Generally we are doing ok and I think I'd give the RFL a B- on a report card. Still lots of improvements to be made but the game is probably in better health now than it has ever been going on my criteria above.

wakey were always going to be kicked out when the thornes park ground proposal died in the a^^e and cas sorted their ground out

the fact clubs like widnes outside SL are developing themselves off the field in a way they didnt before is because the RFLs system of franchising is working in a way P&R never did

bye bye boom bust, hello sustainable development

you get 3 years in SL to show you can cut the mustard, not just one year

great system

thats some of the biggest BS ive ever read on a RL forum

thanks for confirming my views on champ. fans attitude towards the game

thats just a classic response

yes the governing body of the game wants to see champ clubs doing more poorly so it can just focus on SL clubs