Er, widnes have a rich benefactor

Oh of course.
I was just stating that you guys are probably more in danger than most, especially being a young business.
I personally wouldnt worry about the crowd numbers all too much yet, i'd be more concerned about the last 2 performances tbh.
Say 7 out 7 in should do the trick at the end of the season, and the following year the same again.

Didn't read the previous post properly.

That was the point I was trying to make.

Widnes point the finger but with no evidence to suggest Samuels will walk out then it galls me that fans can point the finger at one money man when they have exactly the same thing.

Maybe so but without the backing of Moran you would not be able to pull off the signings that you so regularly do. Hypothetically without the players of top calibre, performances on the field will drop, in turn crowds will fall and so will the sale of merchandice etc etc thus reducing the turnover of said club and then you're back to square one again relying on the big money investor to turn around the clubs fortunes. Its catch 22 every team in the league needs a wealthy backer, I would imagine the najority of chairmen/board members have spent much more than they have got out of their respective clubs, probably even more so someone like moran.

Touche.
Without the backing of Moran Warrington would IMO simply not exist in the capacity it does now, he paid off a number of debts years before he became our owner and according to the shareholder information it would appear we still have debts.
However with the strides we have made in recent years off the field i'm fairly confident we could run a SL club at full cap fine

I sincerely hope that is the case and in years to come hope the same can be said for every club playing pro rugby league (not just super league), however this is obviously an unrealistic dream. Warington are a club others should be looking to in terms of growth on and off the pitch but as you rightly pointed out you needed the money man in order to get where you are now (this is not a dig every successful club needs one).

You just cannot leave your little vendetta alone can you?



With all due respect, if Steve O'Connor walked away tomorrow, Widnes would not fold. The support base and will is there to keep it going, and always will be.

The same cannot be said of CC can it?

You've gone bust once before.

If he did, what's to say in this financial climate you would guarantee people to bail you out this time?

Wasting my time again but here goes



Widnes can happily survive on their gate profits in the Championships and also potentially in SL if there is no relegation

They went bust quite simply to get out of an excessive rental agreement on the HJ/Stobart stadium that was bleeding them dry

Could Celtic survive in either competition if they didn't have somebody tipping in very large amounts ?

You might well now bring up Leighs situation both in SL and the Championships , quite simply we dont have the attendances and income to survive in either either

But not to worry because RL is in good shape , we know this because the RFL tell us so

Nothing like in the same way.

Ken Davy, Ted Richardson and Steve O Connor know what to expect from RL. I suspect LS expected better even if we didn't. He has already put 745k into something that is showing little sign of getting better financially.

Most other Super League clubs and many championship club, Widnes included would continue. CC would only continue if the RFL took them over.

So you knew better than a man who has owned and run sports clubs before? Ok then.



He knows it's not going to be easy but he will get there.

You shouldn't say things like that. You'll end up in Siberia.

Owned and ran a very unsuccessful sports club previously.

I reckon I know more about RL than Leighton Samuels does. He's already said he was extremely disappointed by the season tickets and the take up on free tickets. They've actually got a similar level to what many of us on expected so I'm one up on him there.

He's part of the same club that predicted 14,000 for Brisbane Bronco's visit and they got 2,000.

You can try and move the goalposts of the argument again but how long is he going to keep losing 745k? Its all very well and good saying that they're in it for the long term but lets look at next year. Are CC really likely to improve upon the 250 season ticket holders based on this year? So that means an awful lot more money he's going to need to put in.

I haven't been around long and I lurk more frequently than post, but I do find it hard not to pick a side in this expansion/non expansion debate.

I am sure that there are those who feel the game was going along quite nicely with mostly northern English routes and who didn't feel that taking the game out to the masses would be the best way forward.

I also know I wouldn't have got interested in Catalans Dragons and then the South Dorset Giants if expansion hadn't been tried.

I suppose the RFL have people in post who know what they are doing on this and will have a business plan and targets to monitor where they are on the path to making the game nationwide and Europe wide.

I am going to try and remain patient and hope for the best.

Another complete misread of the thread. There is effectively nobody saying we shouldn't try and expand. The difference is purely in how we should go about it.

Many people think that putting an under prepared Welsh club into Super League so soon would be a mistake in the long term. I am one of the them. It's hard to disagree with us at the moment because its pretty much gone as we predicted it would.

I'd love to be proved wrong but it doesn't look particularly likely at this moment in time.

Oh and finally, you do know this is the RFL you're talking about right?

Come on then Mystic Meg where are these predictions?

We're averaging around 3,800 at present with games still to go.

At the beginning of the season I would have been happy with 4,000 average and think we still will achieve that.

I thought we would finish bottom or bottom but one. No surprise there. It is where we are at when 3 years is up. If we are still getting bad crowds then, then fair enough.

Unfortunatley they like everybody dont know what will happen and you can have all the business plans in the world drafted by the best financial/marketing/business brains you can find and there is still a probably better than even chance that something like this will fail

It is very much dependant on the whim of people that the people trying to build and run the business cannot control

You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink

They are actually still on RLfans if you want to look for them. I also suggested that they would average 4000 in the first year. You might think its a good average but I don't think it is and I don't think it will necessarily grow from this. You have 250 season ticket holders, do you expect this to grow next year?

Its a hell of a lot better than predicting 14,000 and getting 2,000 isn't it?

My point is that I think (opinion) that LS was expecting more than 4000, I said it before CC were admitted and I'm saying it now. If he hadn't then surely he wouldn't be disappointed by either the number of season tickets sold or the number of free tickets taken up?

If we end up getting more than quins average who have had a far more successful season than us, which isn't hard, then that will be a start and good enough for me for a beginning.

As for the rest of it, I was at the meeting, you weren't. Don't take hear say and make what you want from it.

Don't believe everything you read on forums either.

So your denying the 250 season ticket holders and the £745k then?

As I said, don't believe everything you read on the internet especially forums like this.

Are you denying it, yes or no?

I actually read it on your forum rather than on here and it was from somebody at the meeting. Doesn't seem to be anybody denying it there.

Don't believe everything you read on here.

Especially on our forum, there are people there from union teams who aren't what they seem. If he says he was at the meeting you believe it. Does that mean he was? Up to you if you want to believe that. If we had sold that many tickets do you think we'd whack it on the internet for all to see? Use your noggin.

Leighton Samuels is here for the long term. That's all you need to know.

Now get back onto the masterplan - How to get revenge over Batley.

Hmmm not what you said,



and also,



You must have some pretty spiteful fans then hadn't you. Seems you yourself have admitted that its low as well and you admit that LS admits it is low so my point still stands.

The season ticket sales are obviously not very good.

The walk up crowd has been decent though considering.

Next season we will improve on sales no doubt. A lot of fans this season have had a look, so to speak and with Wire and Wigan coming up a few more will do too.