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| Oh no c'mon GF, you know full well the RFL won't relegate ya.  If they do however, I foresee Harlequins RL in SL next season.  |
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| Quote ="gutterfax"Whilst I agree with your sentiments regarding a central policy, the NRL is not the best example to use. Attendances are down 2.2% over the last 10 seasons since 2005......flogging "memberships" is not getting bums on seats.'"
Is that the average NRL crowd that's down? Does that take into account the adding of an extra club which when their attendances settle will naturally be lower than the average?
Same as SL really, a more accurate comparison would be of the average of the "existing" 12 SL clubs attendances (minus games v the 2 additional clubs) in the licensing period versus pre-licensing.
In the same way as a more accurate judge of NRL's crowds would be of the NRL teams minus Gold Coast (minus games versus Gold Coast) compared to 2005. |
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| Quote ="Him"Is that the average NRL crowd that's down? Does that take into account the adding of an extra club which when their attendances settle will naturally be lower than the average?
Same as SL really, a more accurate comparison would be of the average of the "existing" 12 SL clubs attendances (minus games v the 2 additional clubs) in the licensing period versus pre-licensing.
In the same way as a more accurate judge of NRL's crowds would be of the NRL teams minus Gold Coast (minus games versus Gold Coast) compared to 2005.'"
Indeed....but the fact remains that the NRL, which is the #1 sport in 2 Australian states, still struggles to attract regular crowds in good numbers.....I don't disagree that the membership idea is a good one that generates cash for the clubs, but it hasn't really added many bums on seats over the years. |
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| How about advertising SL and the clubs on a shed load of trucks driving up and down the country? |
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| Quote ="Starbug"How about advertising SL and the clubs on a shed load of trucks driving up and down the country?
'"
Your "wasted" up there in Leigh.......which probably makes living there bearable  |
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A quick glance at Wiki shows that SL XIX is averaging 8,164 over the 126 H/A games....or
8,220 if you include the Magic attendances and games into the maths.
The Average for SL XVIII was 9,048.
Down between 9 and 10% depending on what church you genuflect at.
Remove Bradford and London's attendances, home AND away this year and you come up with an average of.......9,042 (excluding Magic).
as you where.....
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| Quote ="gutterfax"A quick glance at Wiki shows that SL XIX is averaging 8,164 over the 126 H/A games....or
8,220 if you include the Magic attendances and games into the maths.
The Average for SL XVIII was 9,048.
Down between 9 and 10% depending on what church you genuflect at.
Remove Bradford and London's attendances, home AND away this year and you come up with an average of.......9,042 (excluding Magic).
as you where.....'"
Both those clubs started the season with serious problems, which in itself would have affected attendances irrelivant to the change in structure
And yes I am wasted, or is it I have been wasted when in a position to contribute  |
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Quote ="loiner81"You do know Trinity's ground capacity has been reduced this year don't you?
www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-6407110
Which kind of explains why the crowd dropped from over 10k last year to 5k this year.
etc.'"
You do know Trinity's ground capacity had been increased since then don't you?
[urlhttp://www.wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/news/stadium-capacity-increased-2/2014/06/[/url
Which kind of explains why the crowd on Friday not even equalling Bradford's turn out on Sunday against the side with the smallest away following, on the same day the your passes through the borough and on the back of the club's worst season in years is p155 poor! |
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Quote ="loiner81"You do know Trinity's ground capacity has been reduced this year don't you?
www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-6407110
Which kind of explains why the crowd dropped from over 10k last year to 5k this year.
etc.'"
You do know Trinity's ground capacity had been increased since then don't you?
[urlhttp://www.wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/news/stadium-capacity-increased-2/2014/06/[/url
Which kind of explains why the crowd on Friday not even equalling Bradford's turn out on Sunday against the side with the smallest away following, on the same day the your passes through the borough and on the back of the club's worst season in years is p155 poor! | |
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| Quote ="Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza"You do know Trinity's ground capacity had been increased since then don't you?
[urlhttp://www.wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/news/stadium-capacity-increased-2/2014/06/[/url
Which kind of explains why the crowd on Friday not even equalling Bradford's turn out on Sunday against the side with the smallest away following, on the same day the your passes through the borough and on the back of the club's worst season in years is p155 poor!'"
I agree.
It's massively disapointing that the people of a 'heartland' city like Wakefield care so little about their team, or that a club like Wakefield is so ineffective at selling itself to the local population. |
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| Quote ="bramleyrhino"I agree.
It's massively disapointing that the people of a 'heartland' city like Wakefield care so little about their team, or that a club like Wakefield is so ineffective at selling itself to the local population.'"
We were getting 8k not so long ago, so the potential is there but there it's much harder to pull in the punters when you're getting turned over most weeks. I daresay if Leeds had our SL record, their crowds would be much lower.
I could even crack out the old attendance as a % of population schtick, but it's a bit old now.
SL in general needs to up it's game, we need to find a way of making the sport fashionable again. |
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| Quote ="TrinityIHC"We were getting 8k not so long ago, so the potential is there but there it's much harder to pull in the punters when you're getting turned over most weeks. I daresay if Leeds had our SL record, their crowds would be much lower.
I could even crack out the old attendance as a % of population schtick, but it's a bit old now.
SL in general needs to up it's game, we need to find a way of making the sport fashionable again.'"
With a new coach, some good results and, arguably, a play-off place within reach, one would suspect that the locals would be rather interested in a local derby.
As for attendances as % of population, I don't see the relevance to be frank. Different towns and cities have vastly different leisure markets. What matters is the number and quality of the punters coming through the door. |
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| Quote ="TrinityIHC"We were getting 8k not so long ago, so the potential is there but there it's much harder to pull in the punters when you're getting turned over most weeks. I daresay if Leeds had our SL record, their crowds would be much lower.
I could even crack out the old attendance as a % of population schtick, but it's a bit old now.
SL in general needs to up it's game, we need to find a way of making the sport fashionable again.'"
But the sport was never fashionable, at least not for over 50/60 years. SL didn't come along and make it fashionable, all it did was stick a new coat of paint on. Now it was a much needed coat of paint but it didn't make RL fashionable, only individual clubs can do that.
It's also worth remembering in all this doom & gloom we have in our sport, that attendances are much higher than they were pre-SL and during most of SL itself.
I agree with Bramley, there isn't a 1 size fits all approach to this, it's down to individual clubs to market themselves properly. I don't think clubs in general do enough to get people in to the games and certainly don't do enough to maximise the income when they're there or in getting people enrolled in some kind of club membership or scheme. |
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| Quote ="gutterfax"Insightful as ever.'"
If the cap fits.
Quote ="gutterfax"A quick glance at Wiki..'"
Yeah right 
Quote ="gutterfax"
Remove Bradford and London's attendances, home AND away this year and you come up with an average of.......9,042 (excluding Magic).
as you where.....'"
So not bad news at all then really and crowds are actually up if Magic Weekend's included, like it should be.
Why did you exclude it? you don't do things like that when comparing to other sports who hold event games at stadiums like Wembley....
Pathetic. |
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| Quote ="Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza"You do know Trinity's ground capacity had been increased since then don't you?
[urlhttp://www.wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/news/stadium-capacity-increased-2/2014/06/[/url
Which kind of explains why the crowd on Friday not even equalling Bradford's turn out on Sunday against the side with the smallest away following, on the same day the your passes through the borough and on the back of the club's worst season in years is p155 poor!'"
Nope, I didn't know and like many others I didn't go because I thought it was still 5k and it's not the best place to go to when the capacity isn't restricted.
So who's at fault there, me or Trinity? I dare say they'll have lost a lot of potential revenue as there's no way the crowd would've been that low if people were aware. Leeds aren't exactly known for their small away following. |
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| Quote ="loiner81"If the cap fits.
Yeah right
So not bad news at all then really and crowds are actually up if Magic Weekend's included, like it should be.
Why did you exclude it? you don't do things like that when comparing to other sports who hold event games at stadiums like Wembley....
Pathetic.'"
Oooooooh get you!
Magic weekend is harder to deal with because you'd have to try and remove the Bradford fans and both Londoners..
By the way, there's little to be gained by comparing magic weekend to Saracens.......I think you'll continue to look like a bitter cock when it continually shows you which code is bigger, more popular and better run. You're welcome! |
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| Quote ="gutterfax"Oooooooh get you!
Magic weekend is harder to deal with because you'd have to try and remove the Bradford fans and both Londoners..
By the way, there's little to be gained by comparing magic weekend to Saracens.......I think you'll continue to look like a bitter cock when it continually shows you which code is bigger, more popular and better run. You're welcome!'"
See there you go again, you can't stop yourself can you. The Saracens crowds certainly do not show Union as the bigger and more popular code and better run is debatable. Saracens crowds are well below Leeds & Wigan's for instance. That doesn't show it as bigger & more popular. As for better run, well there are plenty of problems at that level in RU including debates about P&R, salary cap, clubs getting into debt & youth development. Sound familiar? The Saracens Wembley games are very well organised, but that's a seperate team to the AP isn't it? |
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| Quote ="Him"But the sport was never fashionable, at least not for over 50/60 years. SL didn't come along and make it fashionable, all it did was stick a new coat of paint on. Now it was a much needed coat of paint but it didn't make RL fashionable, only individual clubs can do that. '"
RL will never be fashionable, mainly because we are a northern sport. |
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| Quote ="gutterfax"Oooooooh get you!
Magic weekend is harder to deal with because you'd have to try and remove the Bradford fans and both Londoners..
'"
Fair enough, as long as you removed MW from the previous year's average?
Quote ="gutterfax"
By the way, there's little to be gained by comparing magic weekend to Saracens.......I think you'll continue to look like a bitter cock when it continually shows you which code is bigger, more popular and better run. You're welcome!'"
I could care less about other sports, be they other codes of rugby or tiddlywinks. I care about RL and despite all your agenda driven, stats twisting, bleating, it's pretty obvious to anyone with even half a brain that we're actually doing OK and once the dead wood's gone at the end of this year we'll be doing very well. |
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Really good article by James Gordon of loverugbyleague discussing some of the issues in this thread, amongst others, and how the RFL aren't really solving the "real" challenges that our sport faces.
www.loverugbyleague.com/blogpost ... blems.html |
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Really good article by James Gordon of loverugbyleague discussing some of the issues in this thread, amongst others, and how the RFL aren't really solving the "real" challenges that our sport faces.
www.loverugbyleague.com/blogpost ... blems.html | |
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maybe fans are fed up of having to change/make plans for different gamedays every week as opposed to when it mainly 3pm on a Sunday unless you were a SKY game on Fri or Sat.
For instance the Giants will have played Friday 8pm, Saturday 3pm, Thursday 8pm, Saturday 3pm, Thursday 8pm, Friday 8pm, Thursday 8pm, Sunday 3pm, Saturday 3pm, in the last 2 months - We haven't had the same gameday twice in a row in that period, if fans have to arrange babysitters/travel/time off etc everytime it changes from 3pm Sunday then folk will just stop bothering !
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Quote ="WARRIORCRAIG"Really good article by James Gordon of loverugbyleague discussing some of the issues in this thread, amongst others, and how the RFL aren't really solving the "real" challenges that our sport faces.
www.loverugbyleague.com/blogpost ... blems.html'"
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a really good article. His claim attendances are dropping at an alarming rate is at worst plain wrong and at best hyperbole. Another dodgy point is where he bemoans the difference in interpretation between obstruction rules in the NRL and SL and then compares it to football. A daft comparison. A better comparison wouldn't be between a sport with a complicated and lengthy set of rules and one with a very simple set, but between the former and another sport with a complicated and lengthy set of rules, ie Union. Where rule interpretations differ from England to Wales never mind from England to Australia.
I also didn't see any problem with the rules and interpretations during the RL World Cup, everyone seemed to manage perfectly fine.
He conveniently ignores the effect the economy has on RL and is basically just annoyed that everyone is on about obstruction issues.
Unfortunately his viewpoint (or how it appears in that piece) is part of the problem with RL. It's blame the RFL/structure/Magic Weekend instead of looking at the clubs and what they're doing. Or rather, what they're not doing.
If crowds are falling at Wakefield & Bradford but rising at Leeds, maybe it's not an RFL/structure etc issue. Maybe it's issues specific to Wakefield & Bradford.
Whilst there are issues that can/should be tackled by the RFL such as structure (though I don't believe that has anything like the effect on crowds or interest in RL than some people try to say it does. In SL at least anyway), salary cap exemptions etc. There are just as important (and more so, in my opinion) issues that need to be tackled by clubs. Such as club marketing, poor memberships, poor additional income, incompetent/poor management.
I think those issues have a far bigger effect on RL than any structure does or whether people like the Magic Weekend or not. Plus the economy. It's effects are massively underestimated in my opinion. |
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Quote ="WARRIORCRAIG"Really good article by James Gordon of loverugbyleague discussing some of the issues in this thread, amongst others, and how the RFL aren't really solving the "real" challenges that our sport faces.
www.loverugbyleague.com/blogpost ... blems.html'"
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a really good article. His claim attendances are dropping at an alarming rate is at worst plain wrong and at best hyperbole. Another dodgy point is where he bemoans the difference in interpretation between obstruction rules in the NRL and SL and then compares it to football. A daft comparison. A better comparison wouldn't be between a sport with a complicated and lengthy set of rules and one with a very simple set, but between the former and another sport with a complicated and lengthy set of rules, ie Union. Where rule interpretations differ from England to Wales never mind from England to Australia.
I also didn't see any problem with the rules and interpretations during the RL World Cup, everyone seemed to manage perfectly fine.
He conveniently ignores the effect the economy has on RL and is basically just annoyed that everyone is on about obstruction issues.
Unfortunately his viewpoint (or how it appears in that piece) is part of the problem with RL. It's blame the RFL/structure/Magic Weekend instead of looking at the clubs and what they're doing. Or rather, what they're not doing.
If crowds are falling at Wakefield & Bradford but rising at Leeds, maybe it's not an RFL/structure etc issue. Maybe it's issues specific to Wakefield & Bradford.
Whilst there are issues that can/should be tackled by the RFL such as structure (though I don't believe that has anything like the effect on crowds or interest in RL than some people try to say it does. In SL at least anyway), salary cap exemptions etc. There are just as important (and more so, in my opinion) issues that need to be tackled by clubs. Such as club marketing, poor memberships, poor additional income, incompetent/poor management.
I think those issues have a far bigger effect on RL than any structure does or whether people like the Magic Weekend or not. Plus the economy. It's effects are massively underestimated in my opinion. | |
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The new structure really concerns me, to the point I don't even want to think about next year in case it spoils my love of the game. I think it will have no serious impact on attendances and will probably reduce some and increase others, but the complexity and bizarre nature of it all I think could have a massively negative impact on attendances in the medium to long term.
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| Quote ="Tre Cool"The new structure really concerns me, to the point I don't even want to think about next year in case it spoils my love of the game. I think it will have no serious impact on attendances and will probably reduce some and increase others, but the complexity and bizarre nature of it all I think could have a massively negative impact on attendances in the medium to long term.'"
I think the opposite will happen, that it'll put people off in the short term but they'll get over that over a few seasons.
I'd also say it's no more complicated really than the NRL system and certainly of the NRL system when they were at 15 teams and used the McIntyre? playoff system. |
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| Quote ="loiner81"I could care less about other sports, be they other codes of rugby or tiddlywinks.'"
Short term memory loss......sad in one so young.
Quote ="loiner81" you don't do things like that when comparing to other sports who hold event games at stadiums like Wembley.... '" . |
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If they do however, I foresee Harlequins RL in SL next season. 
