No, being honest, the guy is as much of a disgrace (if not more) than Bailey.

Last year wasn't it?

In one!!

Morgan Escare

Appearances - 27
Tackles - 151
Missed- 45

Zak Hardaker

Appearances - 21
Tackles- 134
Missed -27

So Escare has missed only 18 more tackles than Hardaker, despite playing 6 more games than him. It's a myth Escare can't tackle. He's not as good as Hardaker who's an outstanding all round full bak. But I think some traditionalists can't take the fact we have found an outstanding player outside the heartlands and keep rolling out the "he can't tackle" line.

Or another way of looking at it is that he makes fewer tackles per game (ME 5.6, ZH 6.4) and misses more of them (ME 29.8%, ZH 20.1%) than Zak. I wouldn't go with the line that he can't defend for toffee, but missing nearly a third of all your tackles is not a good stat for any player.

I'd like to add that I think Escare is a cracking player, and I hope France produce a lot more like him, but Hardaker is thoroughly deserving of his spot in the dream team.

Only? Only? He misses 23% of the attempts he makes. That is big.

Your damn right he is not as good as Hardaker.

And nobody argued he wasn't a good player. It was only you who originally tried to make out he was the best.

A topic like this is always going to have differing opinions. I can understand the Calls for Escare but from what I've seen I think Hardaker has been better this season. A also don't think any indiscretions that happened throughout the season should be taken into account as it is about on field peformance.

I don't agree will all the selections however I can understand the reasoning behind them. There are a few players IMO who can consider themselves very unlucky not to be included.

The "Dream" Team has zero credibility - I don't know why there's so much interest about who is in/not in. It's picked by the press/TV so has the same credibility as if we had 100 random fans picking it - i.e. none.

The only credible team would be one picked by the players. Is it really so difficult for players to pick theirs at the same time they vote for MoS?

Where on earth have I said Escare is the best? I've said Hardaker is a better full back. My point is Escare isn't as bad at defending as everyone suggests.

He has made more breaks, scored more tries and had more impact for his team than Hardaker in 2014. Escare's defence would have to be truly terrible for Hardaker to have had a better year, but it isn't - and this is with a far weaker defence in front of him leaving him often exposed to big forwards running through etc. And yet his defence has improved remarkably as the season has gone on - see the Cas game on Saturday for an example. I just don't see how anyone can justify that Zak deserves a place more in the dream team than Morgan, no matter how good a player he is.....

As a Leeds fan I would question Watkins and Ablett's inclusion, with the following qualifications:
Ablett is one of the most consistent and underrated players in Superleague. He may not do the spectacular stuff but he makes the big plays when it really matters.
Watkins was blistering for the first half of the season. Only Briscoe has made more metres than him at centre this year. He's also made over 400 tackles which is an awesome amount for a centre and only Ryan Atkins has made more offloads than him in that position. (surprisingly given Moon's reputation, he is level with him on offloads)

As for the Hardaker/Escare debate there's really no contest. Escare is a great talent and I love watching him, but he is way behind Hardaker in both attack and defence.
Hardaker (despite his deserved 5 match ban) is still the 3rd highest metre maker in the league. Escare only just makes it into the top 20. Escare may have scored more tries but Hardaker more than makes up for this with a whole host of quite brilliant try-saving tackles.

Ryan Hall has scored more of his miracle tries this season, although so has Monaghan. The clincher for me is the hard yards Hall makes out of defence. The stats again show a massive difference in metres gained, (Hall has made almost 50% more than Monaghan)

The real no brainer is Peacock. He has been a monster in every facet of the game:
Most carries in the league (by some distance)
4th highest metre maker
3nd lowest percentage of errors per carry
10th highest tackler
3rd highest marker tackler
4th highest number of offloads

yet he makes less meters per carry.. has less tries, less assists, has made loads more errors and has made alot less tackles.

your 'clincher' only really shows that you have been over reliant on him to do your forwards work, which could be argued has weakened his try scoring ability.

maybe you should play him in the second row.

Who is james Deighton? This is the team he submitted (no joke): Zak Hardaker (Leeds); Ryan Hall (Leeds), Michael Shenton (Castleford), Kallum Watkins (Leeds), Jermaine McGillvary (Huddersfield); Kevin Sinfield (Leeds), Tim Smith (Wakefield); Jamie Peacock (Leeds), Daryl Clark (Castleford), Andy Lynch (Castleford), Brett Ferres (Huddersfield), Weller Hauraki (Castleford), James Donaldson (Bradford) m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/29175604 It's no wonder this lacks credibility when you have these sorts of people choosing???

Who is james Deighton? This is the team he submitted (no joke): Zak Hardaker (Leeds); Ryan Hall (Leeds), Michael Shenton (Castleford), Kallum Watkins (Leeds), Jermaine McGillvary (Huddersfield); Kevin Sinfield (Leeds), Tim Smith (Wakefield); Jamie Peacock (Leeds), Daryl Clark (Castleford), Andy Lynch (Castleford), Brett Ferres (Huddersfield), Weller Hauraki (Castleford), James Donaldson (Bradford) m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/29175604 It's no wonder this lacks credibility when you have these sorts of people choosing???

Quote ="Albion"Who is james Deighton? This is the team he submitted (no joke): Zak Hardaker (Leeds); Ryan Hall (Leeds), Michael Shenton (Castleford), Kallum Watkins (Leeds), Jermaine McGillvary (Huddersfield); Kevin Sinfield (Leeds), Tim Smith (Wakefield); Jamie Peacock (Leeds), Daryl Clark (Castleford), Andy Lynch (Castleford), Brett Ferres (Huddersfield), Weller Hauraki (Castleford), James Donaldson (Bradford) m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/29175604 It's no wonder this lacks credibility when you have these sorts of people choosing???'" is that a real submission ? the only conclusion to be drawn from that is that is WAS weller hauraki that picked it.

Quote ="Albion"Who is james Deighton? This is the team he submitted (no joke): Zak Hardaker (Leeds); Ryan Hall (Leeds), Michael Shenton (Castleford), Kallum Watkins (Leeds), Jermaine McGillvary (Huddersfield); Kevin Sinfield (Leeds), Tim Smith (Wakefield); Jamie Peacock (Leeds), Daryl Clark (Castleford), Andy Lynch (Castleford), Brett Ferres (Huddersfield), Weller Hauraki (Castleford), James Donaldson (Bradford) m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/29175604 It's no wonder this lacks credibility when you have these sorts of people choosing???'" is that a real submission ? the only conclusion to be drawn from that is that is WAS weller hauraki that picked it.

Some of the selections are mystifying beyond belief. I suppose it doesn't matter one jot, however, I don't think it's right that players that have worked their backsides off all season have perhaps not got the recognition they deserve at the expense of slotting in a few players on reputation.

I don't have an issue with Hardaker at full-back. Escare would have been my first choice but both have had good seasons regardless of Hardaker's indiscretion and both offer exceptional qualities.

Ryan Hall's selection is way out IMO. He's a good player but his form has nowhere been representative of his standards from previous seasons. By the same contrast Joel Monaghan's omission is completely perplexing given that he has been the best winger and scored some quality tries.

Joe Burgess, Tom Makinson and even Charnley - who has missed eight games than Hall - scored more tries than him and topped Wigan's try scoring charts. Then there is Carney and McGillvary also worth shouts too.

Shenton's inclusion is an obvious choice, but Watkins falls into the same category as Hall. Good start, but average across the year. My choice would have been someone who seems to have gone under the radar a bit but has been outstanding for Salford in their average season - Junior Sa'u.

In the halves, Kevin Brown is an OK choice but Sneyd has provided more assists and has outshone Brown when playing against each other so I think it's harsh on young Marc. Naturally you have Brough and Chase around too and I'd go for Brough and Sneyd in the halves.

Up front - can't argue with Peacock and Hill. Think Lynch deserves recognition and he's been fairly comparable to JP in most aspects of his game. Daz Clark, can't argue with same as Whitehead.

Ablett is another odd choice. He's a decent player and plays a steady game but without sounding disrespectful that's all. There are players like Ta'ai and Taia who offer a bit more in attack I feel and then there's Liam Farrell, who has had a disappointing season by his standards but still eclipses Ablett.

At loose-forward, O'Loughlin is undoubtedly a top player but he shouldn't be anywhere near the side. Westerman deserves recognition and should be the loose.

What annoys me is that a lot of the media were claiming likes of Carney and Walsh couldn't be included. If you're including Hardaker (six games missed), O'Loughlin (11 games missed) and so on then people like Luke Walsh and Charnley deserve to be included on their 16 games alone. It's farcical.

So yeah, my team would be:

Escare; Monaghan, Shenton, Sa'u, Makinson, Brough, Sneyd, Peacock, Clark, Hill, Whitehead, Taia, Westerman.

7 players from in the top four, six from outside. A more fairer representation than the six selected in the Dream Team and also the five players from sixth position.

This.

I think the only thing we can pretty much agree on, is that the front row is spot on.

No problem with Hardaker, we are basing it on rugby..anything else doesn't count IMO.
The biggest mistake and frankly it is a joke is that SOL gets picked over Westerman, I'd like to be sipping what the ones whom picked him over Joe who has being outstanding this year. Think SOl was lucky to get in last year as well tbh, 15 games in 2013 and was bang average.

Still it's better than being a racist and a huge plonker isn't it?

no idea, as I am neither

exactly!! What makes George Riley an "expert" on rugby league. As far as I can tell he is a fan, but other than being a news reader I am not sure what other expertise does he bring?

From that article on the BBC "experts" choices, Dave Woods has picked Ryan Hall for his contribution in the wrong competition, and James Deighton admits to be being biased to Yorkshire clubs.

How can anyone say " Its a joke 'X' player isnt in the squad'. Its decided my numerous members of the media, no one organisation been bias, unlucky maybe but not a joke.

As a Leeds fan:

I see Kallum Watkins very lucky to be in the squad. He is always dangerous with ball in hand but for me his mind has been elsewhere for a number of weeks now, Joel Moon has been way ahead of him from a club point of view never mind SL.

Hall, well he is your modern winger. Where the days of tries scored are no longer the main focal point, that is the biggest point that 95% contributors to this thread are forgetting. The exact reason why Tom Briscoe is now ahead of Jones-Bishop at Leeds. Its the tough carries and defensive work that is held in higher regard. The game is without doubt won and lost in the forwards and the work Hall does for Leeds is incredible. Sure Monaghan will show he has made more metres, but how many of those were clean breaks fed on a plate and how many was with 3,4,5 players on his back?
Prime example of my point is when Leeds played Saints in the Challenge cup, Hall destroyed Saints' right edge single handedly and Nathan Brown himself said Hall is the best winger on the planet, and guess what? Hall didn't score a try that day either!! To quote "I've been following this game for a long, long time and I don't think I've ever seen a better winger. "He's big and when you see wingers of that size, they don't have his game sense or canniness.

Ablett - If you have seen a lot of him to be able to cast judgement, and you do not agree that he should be in the dream team, then I'm afraid you're stupid. I think he is a player for what ever reason opposition fans choose to ignore. He has been ignored for so long until the last couple of seasons when the media have started to see his contribution, which is immense. For me he is a close 2nd to Leeds' player of the year. (he actually came 3rd at Leeds' award dinner last night). I can guarantee Ablett has caused your side problems this season, He shows up in all the big games and often bags himself a try. Cracking player.

You mean other than (at least) one selector who has openly admitted to being totally biased to Yorkshire clubs, and didnt select one player from outside of West Yorkshire?

Notice all your odd choices are Leeds players, not biased are you