You have some terrific marketing ideas but, to quote you, they are worth 2 tenths of nothing if the other two fundamentals are not in place, viz the product to be marketed and a receptive target market. Marketing is not a magic bullet. It can artificially inflate crowds for a while but, without an attractive winning team AND a population predisposed to the idea of watching the game on a regular basis, marketing can only provide a temporary boost. As we've seen, it can bring in the odd drunken Scottish stag party to a hospitality box but they do not return for more.

As Wigan showed, marketing can get 20,000 into an unpromising quins game, but without the product (the team) and the tradition (the receptive market) to exploit, there would have been no point. Isn't there something in the bible on the futility of casting your seed on barren ground? That god bloke knew a thing or two.

ie There's no prospect at present of making up the Quins shortfall consistently from gate receipts no matter how brilliant the marketing. The cavalry has got to come from somewhere else.

Not mine...but not rocket surgery either



Cracking second half.....thought were very promising myself




If the club were to cut back on the community work, sack the dead wood from the back office (no names here, but previous posts may point you in the direction I am looking), then they would need to get an additional 3,500 on their average to make up the 1,000,000 I believe they would need.
Problem is, the club are terrified to market the game........they have no concept of data collection, or what to do with it and as any MD of a small to medium size business will tell you, direct marketing is the only way to go. The club are sitting in a borough of 250,000 residents who have not the faintest idea that league is played at the stoop. No local marketing.
They would need to find 1.4% of the local population to get another 3,500 in.......and if the greater London survey quoted in RL World in august is correct, there are 8% of the population why have an interest in league..........
I agree....a suf=gar daddy is great, but I would rather the club died trying to fend for itself instead of trying to find someone to prop them up.

www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... quins.html [i"I have met some fellows of integrity in my time and I have met some fellows whom I rate as men. David Hughes is probably up there, he is top drawer. "Without qualm and without fuss he has divvied up an incredible amount of money, almost soccer-style money, to keep this club afloat. "In the last couple of years certain things have happened which have meant he has had to divvy a little bit more up. "It has been tough on him and he can't continue to do that, and nor should he. "That's why I fear for the club. I do have a concern and I hope the people who are making the decisions at the top end make some correct decisions."[/i

www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... quins.html [i"I have met some fellows of integrity in my time and I have met some fellows whom I rate as men. David Hughes is probably up there, he is top drawer. "Without qualm and without fuss he has divvied up an incredible amount of money, almost soccer-style money, to keep this club afloat. "In the last couple of years certain things have happened which have meant he has had to divvy a little bit more up. "It has been tough on him and he can't continue to do that, and nor should he. "That's why I fear for the club. I do have a concern and I hope the people who are making the decisions at the top end make some correct decisions."[/i

Now factor in Stevo on 'Boots 'n All' last night. He rang David Hughes before the programme went on air and asked him if he could guarantee that Quins would be around in 2011. DH said no. This could explain why BM left with a year still to go on his contact to be No. 2 at Leeds, as he's got a family to consider. It also raises other issues. After this the RFL should get a definative statement from the club that they can make it in 2011 and quickly. If they are not prepared to do this, perhaps Quins should be removed now so that Widnes (for example) have time to prepare for SL next year.

Some pretty scary comments in the last two posts, doesn't look good.

Promote the Skolars to SL!!

Adding the Vikings IS NOT expansion

sadly, I agree with you.
Maybe it's time for the Championship. I doubt we'd lose more than half of the 2,500 fans we have and if the Union Lot were ever serious about a partnership, they could look at taking IL's shares for nothing and running the club properly. IL will never see his 2 mil.....so Evans and the union lot could pick up a real bargain. Joint management, marketing, office staff etc.....no problem trimming the 1.5 mil of the op costs....build over the next 6 years and re-apply when the team are winning things in the CH1 or NRC.

Would it not be worth Quins handing in their franchise and look to merge with Skolars, under the banner of London RL or similar, and just starting from scratch? It's surely worth trying something, just to keep the development work going.

Harlequins own them though dont they?

Do they? I genuinely didn't know. Apologies.

No apologies needed. I was just under the impression that when the Broncos nearly went under a couple of years back the Quins bought into them and moved them across the city, giving them thier kit, name, everything.

I may be wrong though.

Absolutely and totally wrong, in fact.

Then thats fair enough. As I said I didnt know, it was just an assumption. So hows it lay then?

As I understand it......and I may be wrong:
Quins RL is owned by Ian Lenegan (60/70%) and David Hughes (30/40%). IL is prevented from providing any financial assistance to the club as he is the owner of Wigan. Therefore, the operational losses off Quins RL are currently being met by DH.
IL has stated he is prepared to give away his shares to someone willing to take them and settle his debt (estimated at 2 million).
The Rugby Union tie in was purely a "partnership" in name only with the Union lot helping out where they can. We are paying rent on the ground (estimated at 400k a year) and as such, are nothing more than tennants.

London Skolars are owned by a very nice chap (who doesn't like me using his name on these boards) and AFAIK, have no ties to Quins RL other than that we can lend them players from time to time.

As I say, I might be wrong.

Walters was linked with Quins no?

The holding company which owned Broncos was wound up. The next day a new company was formed with the same owners and the same assets (ie the rugby league club)*. Quins RUFC played no part at all. And they still play no part in the ownership of Quins RLFC (see Gutterfax's answer)

* You might query the morality of this way of dealing with a debt to HMRC, but it's a common business practice - I've seen it happen loads of times in print. One day you're dealing with one company, the next with an entirely different one, but the only thing that's changed is the name on the invoice.

Spot on.

Friday 13th August 2010 - Crystal Palace FC 2000
Friday 20th August 2010 - Crystal Palace FC 2010
What a difference a chat with HMRC can make.

I’m sure you’re right that 1.4 % of the local population = 3,500, and I don’t doubt that, if asked, 8% of the greater London population would express an interest in Sumo Wrestling as well as Super League, but the best marketing in the world on its own won’t translate any of that into bums on seats on a regular basis. Look at the immense marketing effort that went into American Football, resources that Quins can only fantasise about, and where did the London Monarchs end up?

I know you are passionate about the club and mean well but your arguments consistently fail to take account of the most crucial elements – a promising team and a pre-disposed population. For Quins to survive and reach a point where marketing can be effective David Hughes needs some cavalry to come and help. Now. Sorry if this sounds harsh because I respect your motivation, but, by shifting attention from the real needs, your fantasy arithmetic does the cause a disservice.

I've been saying it since 2002...........and apparently I was wrong then, but might be right now


IF the club had tried in 2002, then they would be nearer a 5k average now.......and therefore nearer financial stability.

Maybe, maybe not. That was then, this is now. DH needs practical help, not theory.

I would love to see a sugar daddy ride over the hills, but what I don't want or expect is the RFL to bail quins out financially....
Sky on the other hand....if they want a SL team in london, then maybe they should foot the bill? Melbourne Storm....anyone....expansion team propped up be the main TV partner....

[url=http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,25212,16044_6324332,00.htmlLuke Dorn's take on things[/url

Well if I had say 2 million quid to "invest" in Quins, one of the first questions I would be asking is what marketing strategy (aka theory) do they have going forward. Otherwise I may as well find a rather large toilet and flush the money down it - lets face it, it would probably be a lot more entertaining.

I am actually a bit surprised that given the alleged significance of Quins to Sky and therefore the entire game that the RFL has not yet found some device to flow money their way somehow. There have to be very serious doubts now as to the ability of Quins to continue as a going concern in the top flight - and it would make everyones job a lot easier if clarity could be obtained as soon as possible as to whether they will drop down a division, and allow the upcoming Championside side (aka Widnes) to prepare.

So Widnes replace Quins. What happens if the following happens.
1/ Wrexham and Crusaders fall out big time.
2/ Cas/Wakey or Salford's grounds do not get finished
3/ Sky say well as the sport is not national we will look at the amount Our investment puts into SuperLeague.
Could become a shadow of Todays league very quickly.
PS. I hope None of the above happens.