We as RL fans ourselves criticise our game in much the same way as Jones but it seems to be that because he is a RU journalist he's just an idiot.

Whatever the guy's agenda is, whether it's anti RL claptrap or genuine disdain at the international RL scene which could be improved dramatically he makes some very valid points as others have alluded to on the thread earlier.

Personally I think this can only help RL. The more people throw out damning criticisms of something the more people want to watch, piquing their interest so to speak, and RL could profit from it just like a cheap B Rate movie will if it's panned across the board (Only our game is a pretty decent spectacle so people could be pleasantly surprised.)

However, it is more likely that only the Union fans will actually read his articles -- so who cares?

Sadly for RL, 100 years of small minded, parochial attitudes have left the sport behind the times.

RU, despite being amateur for over 100 years, pollinated far more of the UK and the world, via the empire & commonwealth - and has far more people in positions of power & responsibility within its old boy network.

How many FTSE 100 directors are RL fans? How many are RU fans.....

Basing the NGB out of Leeds for 115 years can't have helped either, RL has no penetration in the city, where 80%+ of the nations wealth is based.

Compare the RFL board to the RFU management board.

Sorry, I love RL as much as the rest of you, but the damage was done over a long period, a long time ago....

We all know we have the best spectator sport in the world and the actual product is great, what we will never be is a truly international sport on the same scale as others are, we cannot claim to be a national sport, no matter how much the RFL want us to believe we are. In the 100 odd years our sport had been in existence it has failed to spread across the country at a professional level and if you think it has then you just walk around with your eyes shut.

I think the pinnacle of our game is the GB v Australia test series and the Lions tours, this England, Wales, Scotland stuff is not a success, half the other sides are made up of Aussies with tenuous connections and Englishman who cannot get a game for England, but can for Scotland because their Grandad was a tenth Scottish. I cannot get excited about an England v Scotland clash in front of a couple of thousand fans at best, give me GB v Aus test match anyday.

Our crowds for the big games are not bad, the GF can 'nearly' fill Old Trafford (if we get another Saints v Leeds it might not) as can the CC final at Wembley, but thats about it. Compare an England v Wales RL game (a few thousand at the Keepmoat) with the same fixture in RU (80,000 at Twickers).

We need to make what we are good at better, not try and equal RU in everything because it will not happen. I long for a Ashes series win against Australia, I just think the way the RFL are pushing the game into different directions means I am unlikely to ever see it in my lifetime

Truth hurts as they say...well done to the press fella

We can't sell out in wigan

So after all these years of super league have we grown?

Have we won anything at international level?

Do we have our own national stadium?

Ah but franchise is the new saviour





I await the next daft idea they roll out as we continue to shrink

I hate Stephen Jones. There is no need to lay into RL. He is a [i"Rugger"[/i correspondent, and that's what he should report on. Bringing RL into it, just to slag it off, is churlish and crass. He is a typical RU bigot. Even if he has a point - which he does - he is never being constructive, only patronising and insulting. We have our own RL corespondents who's job it is to put the game under the microscope. I find it best to ignore Jones and his cheap-shots at RL. [i"Hey look how rubbish RL is compared to RU, readers. Let's all point and laugh"[/i

Our game has never been based on the international game, while RU actually has. It is, and always will be, a club based sport. That is it's strength. The recent Wales v England was a cringeworthy event that did nothing for the game except show how pathetic RL internationals are outside Australia/New Zealand/GB games (That's being very kind to GB). This is why i find it ridiculous when people, including people at the RFL, say that the inclusion of Les catalans is to improve the French international team. What for? Having one or two teams in SL will not help the French improve enough to compete with Australia and New Zealand. It doesn't help England, and we have 12 clubs in SL. However, at club level, French teams can prosper within SL as well as compete and contribute to the quality of the league.

In my opinion, we should drop the four nation concept and return to GB at international level. Then we may get 25,000/30,000 crowds creating a great atmosphere and a good, close game. Watching the Wales v England game, played out in front of a few thousand, in an old dump of a ground and an experimental England side showing little skill and enthusiasm, and a Wales team made up of nobodies that few people have even heard of, felt about exciting as watching grass grow. If any none RL fan tuned in to that, in the off-chance that they may be entertained by a fabulous, international, sporting spectacle, they probably turned it off with the full intention of never watching such tripe again. I couldn't blame them. Just like I couldn't blame anyone for not attending the game at Brewery Field. I cannot, apart from pure RL obsession, understand why anyone went to that game. Well done to those that did. It's a pity there weren't another 30,000 more like you. But there aren't, and there never will be.

Trying to compete with RU at international rugby will always leave us looking small-time and totally insignificant. This is why Stephen Jones and take the p*ss. RL should do what it has always done best, and concentrate on its club game, with the occasional GB test series against the Aussies and/or NZ.

It would be difficult for Stephen Jones to take the p*ss out of that. (Again I'm being kind to GB)

All that exposure, all the money they get thrown at them disproportionately and still the Premiership clubs are an average of £3 Million in debt.

Rugby League is a threat to union and like many other bodies of authority the RFU in its many guises would love to strangle their nemesis at birth.

Kings, Emperors, Generals throughout history have seen the benefit of killing off a potential rival before it can become too strong.

Rugby League offers a much more vibrant spectacle for both live and TV audiences. Without the restrictions that have held League back internationally there has been a steady and significant increase in the number of countries trying their hand at League.

It will only take so many Lebanon’s, Irelands or Fuji's before some kind of critical mass is obtained and international growth will become an almost unstoppable inevitability.

Imagine a time when Rugby League can match Union for International credibility, when our financial resources become strong and when Sports editors can no longer ignore our showpiece events.

Union will be the big loser in that scenario and they will do anything to prevent it from happening.

Stephen Jones for all his pseudo intellectual spouting’s and derogatory musings knows this as well as anyone and it scares the $h!t out of him and his cocktail drinking chums.

Sorry, must have missed that bit. When did the RFL say we were one of the biggest sports in existence?

There is currently a tournament taking place containing England, France, NZ and Aus. This is an international competition. Just because it is smaller than some others does not make it non existent. Jones is implying that these countries do not play RL simply because he has a hatred of RL. That doesn't make him right. Nor does the fact that some RL fans are happy to have people like him commenting about RL when he hates the game.

WE criticise RL because we care about it, he criticises RL because he wants it to die off.

This constant comparison with others is ridiculous anyway. When a new band emerges do the music press say "good band but they are not as big as The Beatles so they should sack it" or do they just enjoy the band?

My lord, much as I wish you were right (and you are regarding the better spectacle) I am afraid that you are living on another planet......

We could imagine but action actually needs to be taken.

League needs a full time board running the international scene. Not just people giving up some hours every now and then from working in the NRL, ARL, RFL,etc. (I'm sure some of them wouldn't mind a break.)

A full time organization would have the time to get the international scene in order and they could stop some of the things which makes internationals a joke (Nation swapping) Then maybe Stephen Jones won't have as much material to take a pop at!

You been reading someone's blog?

Perhaps

Still pretty obvious that's what needs to be done.

Obvious to me, you and a large number of rugby league followers.

I suspect there isn't enough money in the game to expand aggressively.
Full time requires cash. League is a relatively poor sport - mainly down to a poorly supported international scene. A vicious circle....

Hmm...i would say some of that world cup profit would be useful for this but a lot of that has probably been spent! (on useful things of course)

It'll still be peanuts compared to what Twickenham churns in every 6 Nations tournament/Autumn internationals.

Plus the RFU own the stadium, so it's all clear profit. NRL/RFL have to borrow stadia....

The IRB is substantially wealthier than the RLIF.

And let's not forget what the 2000 world cup did (or didn't....)

Rugby Union is rich? Strange, you never mentioned it.



X-Factor has unrivalled media coverage and generates millions. This makes it the best music show on tv.

'The mighty Lebanon' are indeed not in this competition Mr Jones. Are the mighty Namibia, Portugal, Canada or the Ivory Coast (have all played in RU World Cups) taking part in any games this Autumn?

73,000 + in 1992 at Wembley is what we need to get back to...

Not that far at all really. Just treating the international game with respect.

It is about exposure and correcting the misinformation spread by the likes of Jones.

Just to expand, only someone with no idea whatsoever would claim only Australia - GB matters in rugby league after that superb World Cup Final before a sell-out crowd last year...

The RLWC resides in Auckland after all.

Something union certainly ain't crowing about.

The likes of Jones fear rugby league because they realise it has massive implications for the structure of their sport. We have evolved as a code of rugby, they haven't but realise they need to.

Read between the lines some of you people.

some of the people talking up union on this thread are simply hilarious.

union lies or exaggerates its level of popularity.

its a minor sport in every nation it is played in bar NZ, small bits of england, SA and the south of france.

it relies upon hooray henry fans that turn out 3 or 4 times a year to go to internationals to cover apathy for club games.

with all the media the game gets in england, the collapse in crowds for many GP clubs is really funny.

the game is on its deathbead in australia, declining in NZ too.

the way NZ many NZ commentators have all said the NRL is a far better product tells you the dire future for the game

do they stick with the status quo and become more a marginal sport or admit they were wrong all along and copy RL.

Union is bigger and has more money. This has always been the case.

Jones is paid handsomely to write about the sport 'he loves'.

Yet for decades he writes sneery, nasty & bile filled articles about RL. Our game is an itch that poor old Jones cannot scratch. Our existence irritates the hell out of Jones and his like. RL will not go away, it will not lie down.

Our game will out live Jones, poor boke.

He'll be fertilising the grass while the great game marches on.

114 years this year...

How old is the moron Jones?

Bigger and more money? Bull. More exposure and more misinformation is closer to the point.

How many 90,000+ crowds has union had in London?

Rugby league has had many...

See - we can marginalise as well.

And where would the money go if we sold out stadiums for all internationals, you can bet the SL clubs would be wanting 'fees' for their players involved. RL does not have a good track record at sharing the spoils (look at the SL money, which could have benefitted all clubs) with the top clubs having that greed factor and a couldn't care less attitude towards the lower clubs.

All too true sadly.

Having read through the good points made in this thread I wonder what people think the crowd would be if the RFL announced a Great Britain V Australia 3 match test series next autumn wiith the 1st match at, say the millenium stadium, 2nd at Elland Road and 3rd at Man City.

I reckon the crowds would be massive as the hunger to get a Great Britain side back playing in an ashes series is huge.