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| Quote ="Willzay"This.'"
Hardaker’s mental health issues go back a very long way. He was diagnosed with a MH condition years ago and has been taking medication (when he remembered) for years, as made clear in the judgement.
My bemusement is that this isn’t what the panel used to justify a lesser ban. They gave him a shorter ban because he was intoxicated when he took cocaine. They panel have even said it was lucky he took cocaine and not more alcohol.
To be honest, I would not be surprised if UKAD don’t appeal the ban. It’s opened the door for anyone who gets caught to say they were intoxicated at the time and get a lesser suspension.
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| Quote ="nottinghamtiger"Hardaker’s mental health issues go back a very long way. He was diagnosed with a MH condition years ago and has been taking medication (when he remembered) for years, as made clear in the judgement.
My bemusement is that this isn’t what the panel used to justify a lesser ban. They gave him a shorter ban because he was intoxicated when he took cocaine. They panel have even said it was lucky he took cocaine and not more alcohol.
To be honest, I would not be surprised if UKAD don’t appeal the ban. It’s opened the door for anyone who gets caught to say they were intoxicated at the time and get a lesser suspension.'"
I've not seen the judgement, but these things often only get released after the deadline for an appeal has passed.
As you say, the reasons for mitigation are somewhat bizarre and as I said earlier some recent judgements have opened up several cans of worms for future cases.
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| Quote ="Levrier"Nothing to do with Wigan. Recent rumours suggest that he will be going to Wire. The second rumour doing the rounds is that the drugs test was incorrectly administered leading to a technical defence and then a plea bargain.'"
Two wigan directors in there capacity in the England set up have represented Zak with evidence to reduce the ban, job done the signing of the player should now be sooner than later.
I believe Chris Brookes non exec director of Wigoon and Mark Bitcon director of performance of Wigoon have swinged it in Zaks favour.
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| Quote ="AS108"Is the answer not obvious? Anyone with common sense would know to wait for the outcome of the hearing.'"
So, in a sport with a robust salary cap - Castleford should have just paid ZH his usual three grand a week even though the ban could have been anything up to 4 years and not even known how long the verdict was going to take to be processed? If we (Cas Tigers) had any idea how long the ban would be and how long it would take to come to a conclusion we would have been able to make a more accurate decision. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
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| Quote ="Levrier"Nothing to do with Wigan. Recent rumours suggest that he will be going to Wire. The second rumour doing the rounds is that the drugs test was incorrectly administered leading to a technical defence and then a plea bargain.'"
I can't see him going to Warrington, it's too far from the "bright lights" of Pontefract - I know, but he loves it there apparently!
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| Quote ="The Devil's Advocate"I can't see him going to Warrington, it's too far from the "bright lights" of Pontefract - I know, but he loves it there apparently!'"
Three clubs that insist on their players moving near to their set-up are Saints, Wigan and Warrington.
If I were a betting man I would say clubs that could potentially look to sign ZH are Toronto, Cas, Hull KR, Hull FC and Wigan.
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| Quote ="Tigerade"Three clubs that insist on their players moving near to their set-up are Saints, Wigan and Warrington.
If I were a betting man I would say clubs that could potentially look to sign ZH are Toronto, Cas, Hull KR, Hull FC and Wigan.'"
Do you really see that as an option?
I'm sure many Cas fans would welcome him back, but there must be quite a few with the same opinion as me, he basically ruined the clubs best chance of reaching the pinnacle of the game, & for that I could never forgive.
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| Quote ="The Devil's Advocate"Do you really see that as an option?
I'm sure many Cas fans would welcome him back, but there must be quite a few with the same opinion as me, he basically ruined the clubs best chance of reaching the pinnacle of the game, & for that I could never forgive.'"
I’d never want him back.
Not only for what he has already done, but what he will inevitably do in future.
His defence for this case was basically that he can’t control his decision-making. It’s like playing Russian Roulette. At some point, the worst will happen again.
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| Haven't Cas already said they offered him a new (reduced) contact that he rejected?
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| I'll stick my neck out and say it's already a done deal that he's signed for Wigan. I even tried to have a bet on it but couldn't find a bookmaker who'd give odds.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"My take on this is that this is one of those bizarre moments when you just wish the sport was a properly run professional game so you could get the truth about things and not the nonsensical PR spin that will inevitably come out.
There are so, so many issues with this and precisely none of them will ever be resolved by any of the parties involved, just ignored. The time it took to announce his ban is too long, the time it took to charge him was too long, it was 20 days after his failed test that he played against St Helens in the semi final. The public statements released are nonsense, there were no 'exceptional circumstances' just like there weren't when the last five or six players to be caught got lenient bans either. Anyone who got a 2 year ban should be contacting their solicitors about now to make a compensation claim.
But for me the biggest, most glaring anomaly in this is that Wigan clearly knew when his ban would expire months before it was announced. They have been shuffling their cards for a couple of months now to accomodate him in their squad and have not only agreed a deal with Hardaker but also moved on or attempted to move on other players. Now how could they do that so confidently when the ban was still up in the air? Clearly they had inside knowledge of not only the process but the outcome before it was even decided. Rugby League is a professional sport and wherever money goes so does greed and corruption'" Unfortunately for your theory, this ban was presided over by UKAD and not the RFL so the "how craply run RL is" line doesn't really work.
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| Quote ="The Ghost of '99"Unfortunately for your theory, this ban was presided over by UKAD and not the RFL so the "how craply run RL is" line doesn't really work.'"
Then why are 2 Wigan Directors giving evidence in the UKAD process to support the Hardaker Legal Team to reduce the ban. Surely the RFL will be aware whether directly or indirectly of the Wigan involvement and there intentions.
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Quote ="Angelus"For anyone who wants to have a read of the judgements before jumping to conclusions they can be found here https://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rul ... tegory=541. although the Zak Hardaker one keeps coming up access denied. i assume it hasnt been uploaded properly yet or something (or Wigan dont want to release it
)'"
“He was not a cocaine user...” but was a regular cocaine user.
Do these suits think the general public are thick or something?
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Quote ="Angelus"For anyone who wants to have a read of the judgements before jumping to conclusions they can be found here https://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rul ... tegory=541. although the Zak Hardaker one keeps coming up access denied. i assume it hasnt been uploaded properly yet or something (or Wigan dont want to release it
)'"
“He was not a cocaine user...” but was a regular cocaine user.
Do these suits think the general public are thick or something?
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| Quote ="nottinghamtiger"Moving a few miles doesn’t solve mental health issues, which is why Hardaker can’t make rational decisions. He’ll make the same irrational decisions.'"
This mental health issues thing is a load of bull s in my opinion. If he was your average labourer he wouldn’t be saying he has mental health issues, it’s just because he’s a high profile player in RL that he’s been told to say it to excuse why he acts like a tool. It’s just there as an excuse for a very thick human being who is acting out his intelligence level in society.
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| Quote ="Judder Man"Then why are 2 Wigan Directors giving evidence in the UKAD process to support the Hardaker Legal Team to reduce the ban. Surely the RFL will be aware whether directly or indirectly of the Wigan involvement and there intentions.'" What advisers and witnesses Hardaker used is somewhat irrelevant - the decision-making is still nothing to do with the RFL.
The Wiganers involvement makes it abundantly clear who he's signing for though.
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| I don't have a problem with what might seem a relatively short ban. Assuming he has any kind of self awareness, the knowledge of how he messed up the season for Cas is a pretty big black mark to carry round. Mind you, he seemed completely lacking in that sort of understanding when he left Leeds, given how the club had stood by him through a number of incidents.
I'd also point out that his career as a high earner in RL would be about 10 years tops. Losing 10% of that through a one-year ban is a big hit financially.
If RL in England produced loads of quality players I might feel differently. Sadly we don't, and IMO the game needs those it does produce to play. Regardless, the only way he's not going top end up one of those sad examples of a sportsman throwing his career away is if he knuckles down and grows the hell up.
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| Quote ="Mr Dog"His was a 'washing accident':
[i
....the ITF accepts that Mr Evans has met his burden of proving on the balance of probabilities how the cocaine got into his system, i.e., by inadvertent contamination of his fingers and/or the medication he was handling with cocaine residue when he went into the pocket of his washbag to take out and ingest his medication in the hours before giving the sample on 24 April 2017.[/i
...although the results of his sample analysis showed he'd ingested a tiny amount consistent with his claim:
[iThe ITF's expert, Professor Martial Saugy, agreed that the analytical data are consistent with exposure to a tiny amount (1‐3 mg) of cocaine in the hours prior to provision of the sample.[/i'"
He took cocaine 4 days before the test, 2 days before the tournament started
"It's really important you know this was taken out of competition and in a context completely unrelated to tennis," said Evans, from Birmingham. 2 days before the comp he'd be training/hitting up at the tournament location, it's technically true since the comp did not start until 2 days after but it's not credible and the mickey poor excuse washed somehow
'Last April, a month after reaching a career-high ranking of 41, Britain's Dan Evans failed a drugs test at an ATP event in Barcelona. He had tak .en cocaine out of competition four days earlier.'
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| Quote ="Psychedelic Casual"This mental health issues thing is a load of bull s in my opinion. If he was your average labourer he wouldn’t be saying he has mental health issues, it’s just because he’s a high profile player in RL that he’s been told to say it to excuse why he acts like a tool. It’s just there as an excuse for a very thick human being who is acting out his intelligence level in society.'"
Indeed. Are we now going to assume that any RL player that takes cocaine from now on needs a pat on the shoulder?
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| Quote ="The Ghost of '99"What advisers and witnesses Hardaker used is somewhat irrelevant - the decision-making is still nothing to do with the RFL.
The Wiganers involvement makes it abundantly clear who he's signing for though.'"
But they represented evidence as there capacity as the England RL and not Wigan, this was a double edge sword. The RFL must have agreed to the representation or did they just let the Wigan Directors do what they like.
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| Rangi Chase on Twitter last night......"Do the line, do the time"
You have to agree with him. Why the difference in bans? It was well documented that Rangi had personal issues, and his use of cocaine was also not for performance enhancement
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| Did anyone else find the case document a bit bizarre? Strange bits of speculation of subjectivity in it such as:
"There was no performance related benefit and if he had another bottle of spirits instead, he would not be before us"
I find that melodrama quite odd coming from UKAD.
When all is said and done Hardaker is a very good Super League player but has continually made poor decisions off the field despite given new chances. Personally I don't have a problem with players taking anything recreationally as I'm sure was the case here. I do however, have a problem with players who are dumb enough to get caught.
I wonder how long Wigan will give him, anything beyond a 1 year contract would be inadvisable, he'll keep his head down for 9 months then get in trouble again.
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| Quote ="TheUnassumingBadger"Did anyone else find the case document a bit bizarre? Strange bits of speculation of subjectivity in it such as:
"There was no performance related benefit and if he had another bottle of spirits instead, he would not be before us"
I find that melodrama quite odd coming from UKAD.
When all is said and done Hardaker is a very good Super League player but has continually made poor decisions off the field despite given new chances. Personally I don't have a problem with players taking anything recreationally as I'm sure was the case here. I do however, have a problem with players who are dumb enough to get caught.
I wonder how long Wigan will give him, anything beyond a 1 year contract would be inadvisable, he'll keep his head down for 9 months then get in trouble again.'"
Yes, quite bizarre!
Whilst he did play the 'mental health' issues card the tribunal appears to reduce the length of his ban not because of that but because he was rat arrissed (although they do say he knew he was taking a banned substance!!!!) and as you say, almost praise the switch from alcohol to cocaine.
One thing is it was an independent panel (Sports Resolutions) ruling on the case between UKAD and Hardaker and not a UKAD judgement. That said I'm surprised there was no appeal by UKAD as the judgement appears to offer anyone in the future testing positive for cocaine a 'get out of jail card'
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| Quote ="Mr Dog"Haven't Cas already said they offered him a new (reduced) contact that he rejected?'"
I believe there is a contract offer from Cas on the table for ZH - hence the provision of a job with one of our sponsors whilst his ban expires. He has signed for Wigan though IMO. Wigan have paid his solicitors fees and helped him is his case so it all adds up.
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| Quote ="Tigerade"Three clubs that insist on their players moving near to their set-up are Saints, Wigan and Warrington.'"
It's the only way they can get anyone to live in Lancashire.
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| Quote ="tigertot"It's the only way they can get anyone to live in Lancashire.'"
None of those clubs are in Lancashire.
As a side note, I'd laugh my off if he ended up signing for someone other than Wigan now.
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