Spot on This ^^

Unfortunately the RFL have no other options.

Widnes have handled this very well, good to see. No one is to blame but the merkins who couldn't control themselves. Punishing Widnes does nothing to stop these merkins, they are so thick and care so little about the club that they wond give a hoot if Widnes are fined, banned from the cup, play behind closed doors etc.
My own club has similiar s and it it is unfair to punsh the club or the 99% of decent fans due tot he actions of a handful. The law shoud deal with them, they should be banned from any RL match for the next ten years (hard to enforce I know) and publicly shamed in the Widnes area media.

Exactly!
It is actually a criminal offence to sell alcohol to someone whom is drunk or is buying alcohol for someone whom is drunk but you're bang on the money, how many places turn down someone whom is clearly pished as a fart.
Maybe the police should be looking more closely at the sale of alcohol before/during matches and ensure that everyone concerned understands the law with regard the sale of alcohol and their responsibility from a social POV as well as safeguarding fans whom come to watch the rugby not get tanked up



It is illegal to knowingly sell alcohol, or attempt to sell alcohol, to a person who is drunk. It is also illegal to allow alcohol to be sold to someone who is drunk.

Those who could face prosecution include:

anyone who sells alcohol at the premises

the premises licence holder and premises supervisor

any member or officer of a members club who could have stopped the sale

the premises user where there is a temporary events notice

Disagree, for reasons summarised earlier.

How on earth do you know? I doubt it very much. If there were 100 on the pitch, none of whom you have ever met, and yet you claim they are "so thick" and you leap to the astonishing conclusion that any punishment, they "won't give a hoot" about? You are just making rash claims with zero basis in fact, you have no evidence whatsoever for this. Also history shows us that offenders of this general type, if up before the courts, are not of a predictable "type". Some are sure to have good jobs and good character references. Any caught will almost certainly claim "it was out of character" and mitigate with some account or other of what a good family man he normally is etc.

In a way it is, but as I said, it is the only thing the RFL can do, and it is Widnes' problem unfortunately.

They have not done much at all that the law would see as a crime, assault cases excepted. I doubt any more than a couple will ever face a court. Bans will follow from the club and maybe RFL but as I said, these are surely ineffectual as they can't be policed.

Not exactly. I didn't see anybody on the TV images who could remotely be described as "drunk" within the meaning of licensing law.

Let's just say that in the section where I sat there was no restriction on obviously drunken people being served alcohol; infact I commented that it was illegal to be served in such a state yet the bar did fantastic business...money talks!

FA is right.

The important word isn't "football" but "designated", and that is designated by statutory instrument. So far, only association football has been so designated.

It coiuld, however, constitute a public order offence, either under section 5 (behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress), section 4A (behaviour intended to cause harassment, alarm or distress), or section 4 (threat of violence or likely to provoke violence).

Also, "assault" means apprehension of a battery (i.e., a strike), hence the distinction between common assault and common assault by beating.

This is not a comment on any potential criminality committed by those on the pitch. It is not an offence per se to go on the pitch, but doing so could be construed as committing a public order offence, depending on the context of the invasion.

Does the RFL not have responsibilty for all this as it was their event?

Who was responsible for the staffing levels of stewards as it proved they were wholly inadequate. Where were the police?
So who had the responsibility for the security at Leigh? The RFL, the Leigh club, the police or or is there a match day co-ordinating effort?
Either way punishing the Widnes club seems very unfair.
Widnes had no security control at the event and most certainly no control over those invading the pitch.
The RFL, Stewarding and the Police surely were the ones with the control, or lack of it, it is they who should take full responsibility, not the Widnes club.
Prosecute the individuals yes, the Widnes club, no!

I agree in principle BUT some of these individuals have no doubt caused trouble on other Widnes away trips - a look at You Tube videos shows other examples of yobbery. At least one of those on the old videos looks as though he could have been the same person as was heavily involved at the semi. So, you could argue that if the Widnes club had weeded these people out some time ago then there would have been no need for security at the semi.

Stewarding/policing levels would have to be risk assessed. I would guess they based it on a sell out crowd but with v little expectation of any trouble which would seem a sensible thing to do given the low level of disorder amonst RL fans when compared to football fans.

But there WAS a low level of disorder, looked at objectively. There were apparently a couple of assaults, for the most part what there was was a hundred or so assembling on the pitch and making their way to the far ed to posture, bare their chests and shout at the cas fans. It could have caused a fight but didn't, due both to restraint by the Cas fans and the barrier formed by the stewards, and then the arrival of some police.

We hate to see it, the perpetrators are assholes, and it gives terrible publicity for RL but (assaults apart) what can you actually do to someone for walking across a pitch, with his shirt off? The CPS won't touch most of them as it is indeed a breach of peace at best and in terms of criminal law that is hardly worth a slap on the wrist. It is the reputational damage to both the Widnes club and the game, but the criminal law will not help in restoring that.

I repeat, it is up to Widnes to identify and deal with them, and the only thing the RFL can do is act against the Widnes club. to encourage them and their fans.

Stewarding and policing would have been based on information supplied by both clubs, the police forces covering both clubs and from the RFL. Levels would have been dictated by a risk assessment of a number of factors. "Widnes had no security control at the event".....why not? Warrington stewards were present at the Warrington V Leeds game. Were they not asked, could they not be bothered (Warrington stewards often attend Widnes for the local derby games but Ive never seen Widnes stewards at the HJ) ?

Ultimate blame lies with those who carried out the act but there will be other factors around it that will need to be looked into.

AND......how many of those who have criticised the stewarding/policing on here have actually done the job or would be willing to "show them how it should be done" next season

I do wonder why the MPs stayed awake long enough in the House to make laws for this country [url=http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/public_order_offences/#ViolentThese[/url - when no one does anything that results in anything more than a slap on the wrist.

I was hoping for a number of arrests by now but it seems the BBC were busy in Berkshire and abroad,where that excellent former prime minister is now proving to be just as good as a Middle East peace envoy.

He's left a great country behind....

If your link is meant to suggest that an offence of violent disorder would be made out, then clearly you are wrong. Even the examples listed in the text clearly show that this incident fell well short of violent disorder.

"Dragging The Reputation Of RL Fans Through The Mud" is sadly not yet a criminal offence. Charging the knuckleheads with offences that they are bound to get off is worse than not charging them at all.

Is this thread still going on? Its been, its gone lets move on.

Has anyone been arrested or banned yet?

Absolutely nothing to do with the Leigh club. We don't own the ground.

If they did have a risk assessment then they got it very wrong.
Just that when at the DW I've looked out from the East Stand to see stewards shoulder to shoulder along the touch lines to prevent encroachment onto the pitch.
The small number that did invade the pitch at Leigh would have been prevented and may not have attempted it had there be that shoulder to shoulder cordon which is often seen at many, many grounds.
I just feel that those who had the responsibility to get it right failed and due to their failure they will blame the Widnes club.
Deal with the offenders and no one else.

It's a bit late to suddenly decide to let Widnes off the hook; the established principle in the sport is that the club bears some responsibility for the behaviour of its fans, and I guess the ability to punish the club is an incentive for the club to do some awareness work to discourage its own tribe of morons from attending games; or at the very least, to keep their shirts on and behave like half-decent, semi-sentient human beings if they do.

I don't think it's an either or; the individuals should be dealt with, the match-day management arrangements should be looked at, the role of stewards should be revisited and at the same time, Widnes will need to take some responsibility - if not, then I'd expect the victim mentality of, for example, Cas fans, to exceed any normal measurements, since they were handed a hefty punishment when a minority of their idiots found it impossible not to comment on a players sexuality.

Yep and people are still trying to blame the RFL, the stewards, the police, even Leigh Centurions. Sorry guys there is only one group of people to blame. If you visibly staff f6ir trouble you will get trouble. Oh and I forgot for people looking for loopholes in the law. Get this thread locked amd lets have a thread naming in big letters the cretins

Not heard of any Widnes fans being banned for the activities at Leigh, but I saw that Warrington banned 2 fans this week. One for 5 years for setting off a flair at the (ironically) Widnes games and a second fan for being in possession of a flare at the semi-final v Leeds

Quote ="Father Ted"If they did have a risk assessment then they got it very wrong. Just that when at the DW I've looked out from the East Stand to see stewards shoulder to shoulder along the touch lines to prevent encroachment onto the pitch. The small number that did invade the pitch at Leigh would have been prevented and may not have attempted it had there be that shoulder to shoulder cordon which is often seen at many, many grounds. I just feel that those who had the responsibility to get it right failed and due to their failure they will blame the Widnes club. Deal with the offenders and no one else.'" Is that a wind up Ted, I could go to DW next week with a few hundred mates and I'll bet you anything you want we could invade the pitch, there is even stuff on you tube showing latics fans on the pitch www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoEBFwRbFZsat DW and the average age seems to be about 14 and 6st wet through The FACTS are some folk supporting Widnes in the Widnes end chose to rip up advertising boards, behave like bell ends and invade the pitch. Some folk supporting Widnes bottled the Cas team coach pre game - the Widnes club have the job of sorting it out and issuing apologies to innocent parties ie Cas, LSV co, RFL and anyone who saw it. I wish them well in getting it sorted asap especially for the vast majority of great Widnes fans this incident has tarnished

Quote ="Father Ted"If they did have a risk assessment then they got it very wrong. Just that when at the DW I've looked out from the East Stand to see stewards shoulder to shoulder along the touch lines to prevent encroachment onto the pitch. The small number that did invade the pitch at Leigh would have been prevented and may not have attempted it had there be that shoulder to shoulder cordon which is often seen at many, many grounds. I just feel that those who had the responsibility to get it right failed and due to their failure they will blame the Widnes club. Deal with the offenders and no one else.'" Is that a wind up Ted, I could go to DW next week with a few hundred mates and I'll bet you anything you want we could invade the pitch, there is even stuff on you tube showing latics fans on the pitch www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoEBFwRbFZsat DW and the average age seems to be about 14 and 6st wet through The FACTS are some folk supporting Widnes in the Widnes end chose to rip up advertising boards, behave like bell ends and invade the pitch. Some folk supporting Widnes bottled the Cas team coach pre game - the Widnes club have the job of sorting it out and issuing apologies to innocent parties ie Cas, LSV co, RFL and anyone who saw it. I wish them well in getting it sorted asap especially for the vast majority of great Widnes fans this incident has tarnished

Going off the jackets that some stewards were wearing..........they were from the DW (either that or they bought them from DW sports and were being paid to advertise). I have NEVER seen a "shoulder to shoulder" cordon around ANY RL ground, yes increased numbers if it a big game/local derby/known issues with the fans, but never a complete cordon.

Those types of steward cordons have been used in front of the North and East Stands at the DW, though can't say that for the East Stand.
It doesn't matter who you ban, fine, etc if fans are determined to get into a ground they will, especially away from their home club ground.
The only way to stop them getting onto the pitch is with a cordon by stewards helped by the stadium CCTV system.
How they run that stewarding is down to the Match Authorities, in this case the RFL.
It was their event and their responsibility.

Yes. To save you having to ask in future, there is a little-known trick you can use: just see if any more people have posted comments. If they have, that's the giveaway - the thread is still going on.

HTH