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| The Dr has a point about the cap being too low but he won't get anywhere when dealing with the likes of Hetherington etc.
If he really want to open up the game then to do anything about the cap he may well have no choice but to contest it in court.
In conversation with various people over the years it could well be that if the SC was contested the RFL/SL would not even defend it.
To lose would cost them £ms, money they haven't got and couldn't afford to borrow. If he did I for one would wish him success.
BTW Wigan weren't the only full time club those years ago, Leeds were also full time and before Wigan. They had a larger wage bill than Wigan's and a bigger payroll.
IMO the game would be far better off if there was no such thing as a salary cap.
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| Quote ="Father Ted"The Dr has a point about the cap being too low but he won't get anywhere when dealing with the likes of Hetherington etc.
If he really want to open up the game then to do anything about the cap he may well have no choice but to contest it in court.
In conversation with various people over the years it could well be that if the SC was contested the RFL/SL would not even defend it.
To lose would cost them £ms, money they haven't got and couldn't afford to borrow. If he did I for one would wish him success.
BTW Wigan weren't the only full time club those years ago, Leeds were also full time and before Wigan. They had a larger wage bill than Wigan's and a bigger payroll.
IMO the game would be far better off if there was no such thing as a salary cap.'"
Correct. The only thing that we need is protection against one or more rich clubs stuffing their reserves with top class players, keeping them away from other teams and the viewing public. *That* was the 'Wigan problem', far more than the relative strength of the first choice 13. Insist on very tight squad limits for high paid players ( which has the added benefit of forcing you to develop excellent reserves) and you don't need a cap.
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| Yep with 90% of clubs losing money and half of them long term unsustainable financially, the removal of the salary cap is just what the game needs! Lol.
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| Quote ="RED LEAGUE"Isn't it a bit rich when you get Wigan and Warrington supporters coming on here starting a debate about Salford over spending and other fans saying Salford should be stripped of points/anything they win for LEGALY going through loop holes to spend a little over the full cap when Wigan and Wire are clubs that have been doing it for years! And before super league Wigan had there biggest success period in an uneven competition where they were the only full time club.
And why shouldn't Marwan come out and tell the truth he's only saying what people have been thinking and have known for years! It's like the top 4/5 club are in one big secret society and they are all sworn to secrecy about their dodgy dealings! I've been saying for years that Wigan and Warrington have cheated the cap and you'd get said supporters of their clubs shooting me down now its all come out in public, good on you Marwan if RL wants to go back to the sport it was we need to break up this big 4/5 clique because its doing no favours for a SMALL sport like rugby league, like it or not De Koukash in an indirect way is saving to sport slowly, we get a lot more publicity for a start and he's getting the game out there to people who have never thought about it before, he's not a traditional rugby league man but in time he could be the lynch pin that RL despiratelly needs.'"
When Moran started flexing Wires financial strength Salford fans were the ones whinging. Funny how it's all ok now your man has some cash.
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| At the clubs with wealthier owners, I suspect that Company A pays company B significantly over the odds for goods and services received, then company B sponsors said 'star player' a significant amount of money, which is outside of the salary cap.
This is a very simple and common process that is legal and easily placed elsewhere in an accounting process to avoid it showing up in any audit that the RFL does on a club.
After all, if a club owner has several other trading organisations, what business is it of the RFL as to who they do business with and how, if the club isn't directly linked in any financial transaction?
There's all sorts of loopholes available and Dr Money bags is only saying what a lot of others are doing.
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| Quote ="Father Ted"The Dr has a point about the cap being too low but he won't get anywhere when dealing with the likes of Hetherington etc.
If he really want to open up the game then to do anything about the cap he may well have no choice but to contest it in court.'"
It won't do him much good to be able to spend what he likes on a team that is ejected from the competition.
Salford have no legal right to be in SL or even in any other RFL sanctioned league. You reckon the other SL clubs would stand by while he drove a coach and horses through the cap system? The other owners all know they don't have the money to compete with him and would vote Salford out.
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| Quote ="Kosh"It won't do him much good to be able to spend what he likes on a team that is ejected from the competition.
Salford have no legal right to be in SL or even in any other RFL sanctioned league. You reckon the other SL clubs would stand by while he drove a coach and horses through the cap system? The other owners all know they don't have the money to compete with him and would vote Salford out.'"
He wouldnt need to do anything other than offer a player a contract at X amount, then withdraw that offer and explain to said player that even though they could afford to, and even though they felt said player was worth X amount, they were unable to offer it because of the Salary Cap.
The player would then bring the case and likely win.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"He wouldnt need to do anything other than offer a player a contract at X amount, then withdraw that offer and explain to said player that even though they could afford to, and even though they felt said player was worth X amount, they were unable to offer it because of the Salary Cap.
The player would then bring the case and likely win.'"
He most likely would. But the player has no legal right to play in any given competition and neither do Salford. They would win the case and find themselves with no competition to play in.
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| Quote ="Kosh"He most likely would. But the player has no legal right to play in any given competition and neither do Salford. They would win the case and find themselves with no competition to play in.'"
The player does have a right not to be discriminated against because they took legal recourse.
The RFL would also need to legally justify the revocation of Salford's RFL membership which entitles them to play in RFL's competition under the rules as set down in the RFL's operational rules.
SL (europe) Ltd would also need to justify the revocation of Salfords share regardless of any vote, even if there was provision within the rules, it would be negated.
You cant realistically have an agreement between the clubs to exclude a club or player because a player exercised their legal rights.
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| Good on Koukash, if he wants to plough desperately needed money into RL then let him. The salary cap is a joke in its present format and is holding the game back. It serves no purpose and is only holding back the bigger clubs and the game as a whole.
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| You're right of course. It did nothing to stop one of those big clubs from going bust.
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| Quote ="Famous"Good on Koukash, if he wants to plough desperately needed money into RL then let him. The salary cap is a joke in its present format and is holding the game back. It serves no purpose and is only holding back the bigger clubs and the game as a whole.'"
Could you explain how the cap is holding the bigger clubs back.
Although Saint's (who many would regard as part of the big 4) , may not be having the best of seasons, the others (Wigan, Leeds and Warrington) are going pretty well this time around.
If these clubs were to spend double, or even 10 times the amount that they do now, all that would happen, is that the gulf between the big 4 and the rest would widen.
Do you think this would have a positive effect on the game and help retain the players that are going down under ?
You may be able to save one or two but, even without the salary cap and the weight of the poorer SL clubs around your neck, English clubs cannot compete with the Aussies, due to their sponsorship deal
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| There's no action a player could bring because of a salary cap. It is not a restraint of that individuals trade, if at all. The article linked to is Australian and therefore has no relevance.
As for Koukash's own Comical Ali, Red League, and his defamatory comments about Warrington breaking the cap, he'd do well to provide his evidence for that or stop making himself look like a mug by repeating it.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Could you explain how the cap is holding the bigger clubs back.
Although Saint's (who many would regard as part of the big 4) , may not be having the best of seasons, the others (Wigan, Leeds and Warrington) are going pretty well this time around.
If these clubs were to spend double, or even 10 times the amount that they do now, all that would happen, is that the gulf between the big 4 and the rest would widen.
Do you think this would have a positive effect on the game and help retain the players that are going down under ?
You may be able to save one or two but, even without the salary cap and the weight of the poorer SL clubs around your neck, English clubs cannot compete with the Aussies, due to their sponsorship deal
'"
Spot on. Not to mention the fact that then all available spending would go on players wages rather than other areas like community work, marketing and sports science.
I'd heard a little stat from one of the sports science guys at Leeds that they're now spending more on sports science/conditioning etc in 1 year than they did in the period 1996-2005.
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| No salary cap for me and no PG's or DL's to find it
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| Quote ="maurice"No salary cap for me and no PG's or DL's to find it'"
Will removing the cap actually help anyone.
Apart from stoking up wage inflation amongst UK based players and allowing 4 or 5 SL teams to sign a couple more players, it wont do anything.
And, stoking wage inflation will have a detrimental effect on the game, therefore the net effect is a minus but, lets not upset Wigan or Leeds eh.
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| Hmm. The good Dr has had ample opportunity to make a statement of intent. Be it a player or other such signing.
Proof of the pudding, etc....
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| Quote ="Ian 77 Redux"There's no action a player could bring because of a salary cap. It is not a restraint of that individuals trade, if at all. The article linked to is Australian and therefore has no relevance.
As for Koukash's own Comical Ali, Red League, and his defamatory comments about Warrington breaking the cap, he'd do well to provide his evidence for that or stop making himself look like a mug by repeating it.'"
I'm mearly repeating what I've heard, and this is someone who worked at the Warrington wolves apparently cash in hand is the norm at that club and one off huge payments before and after the players starts and finishes his contract. Come on Ian look at the team you had in 2011, John wilkinson told supporters that Salford's 2011 team was not far off the cap and we didn't have players anywhere near the ilk off Warrington.
1 Brett Hodgson
2 Chris Riley
3 Matt King
4 Chris Bridge
5 Joel Monaghan
6 Lee Briers
7 Richard Myler
8 Adrian Morley
9 Michael Monaghan
10 Garreth Carvell
11 Louis Anderson
12 Ben Westwood
13 Ben Harrison
14 Mickey Higham
15 Jon Clarke
16 Paul Wood
17 Simon Grix
18 Michael Cooper
19 Lee Mitchell
20 Matty Blythe
21 Tyrone McCarthy
22 Rhys Williams
23 Ryan Atkins
24 Rhys Evans
26 David Solomona
I'm not having that complete squad shared the £1.8 million salary cap between them, Morley was/is on £200000 a year and same goes for Matt King and Bret Hodgson. That's 600000 on just 3 players of that squad.
And myler left Salford after refusing an apparent £120000 a year deal so he must be on more at the wolves aswel.
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| How much rummaging through their bins did you need to do to find Morley, King and Hodgson's wage slips?
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Will removing the cap actually help anyone.
Apart from stoking up wage inflation amongst UK based players and allowing 4 or 5 SL teams to sign a couple more players, it wont do anything.
And, stoking wage inflation will have a detrimental effect on the game, therefore the net effect is a minus but, lets not upset Wigan or Leeds eh.'"
Stoking up wage inflation!! SL wages have deflated year after year in real terms since the cap was introduced, are our players not worth a bit extra £££ ?!
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| I dont have a problem with a cap. Where i do have a problem is that the RFL have done absolutley nothing in the past decade to raise the cap in line with inflation. They also have done notjing to raise the profile of the sport either. There is an article on the wigan board by maurice and dave whelan from around 03 predicting exactly what we have now. Granted they had the wigan clubs interests at heart with their sentiments. But the sport has stood still long enough exactly because of clubs like salford. And now they have some cash they want the rules changing. Well bang your head against a brick wall for another ten years or so boys as the rfl dont even do evolution never mind revolution.
As somone above pointdd out the one area the dr can improve without the rfl being able to touch him is the off the field personell. Brian Noble was as i understand it instrumental in the current training facilities at wigan so they have a good chap there to sort that out.
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| I'd be happy to see a salary cap exemption for a player signed from outside SL. One per club, pay them what you like. Would see some decent NRL stars or RU players coming into the game and appease money bag owners.
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| Salford and the bigger clubs may have the money to spend if the cap is abolished but what about everyone else? The amount of money the smaller clubs will be able to spend on wages will be hampered by the lack of money coming into the game, meaning that eventually their best players will go elsewhere and the gap between the top clubs and smaller clubs will just get bigger.
Removing the cap shouldn't be considered until more money is pumped into the league, which isn't going to happen until the RFL get their collective fingers out and do something about it. So in other words, the cap will probably be here for good.
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| Quote ="Orrell Lad"Stoking up wage inflation!! SL wages have deflated year after year in real terms since the cap was introduced, are our players not worth a bit extra £££ ?!'"
Although Salford claim to be able to spend the full cap, this makes 5 (perhaps 6) clubs, in a 14 club comp that are able to pay the full cap.
No one can deny that RL players earn every penny that they get and equally, nobody would begrudge them an increase but, that isn't the point is it ?
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| If you listen to the GMR interview , he said spend up to the salary cap , or exploit mechanisms available to him outside of that cap.
Is this putting the game into disrepute or ' telling it like it is ' ? He has asked two things , for Salford to overspend the cap temporarily &/or for the Salary cap to be raised in general .
his fellow director is Andrew Chalmers , ex Auckland Warriors and NZRL chairman, his CEO is Ed Farish , ex CFO of the NRL & Financial Director of Gold coast Titans . so I would say it's a good chance he's been given a good indication of what is actually going on.
The owner is new to the sport and has been outspoken , especially about the salary cap since pretty much day 1 .
Even as a Salford fan I don't agree with overspending the cap, it was put their for a reason . however if loopholes are being used in the present & in the past , if needs to be brought out into the open and discussed , just like the league structure is.
It sounds to me like he is being outspoken to do just that, bring the subject into discussion . before the torches & pitchforks are handed out ..
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