As it happens I'd have made in plainer, simplicity is best with branding, the plainest isn't the issue.

'Classic' shapes can't be copyrighted, the whole logo incorporating a shape can but the shape alone can't.

What's your take on your own club with the rhino would you prefer to have something that relates to your home city or you happy with the brand, personally I've always been envious of crests like Wigan and Halifax

as a Rhinos fan, but i am not from the city, although it is my local big city, i personally prefer the brand, i know some people do not like the Americanisation of sports branding, but it works for us and i always liked it. I remember when we announced the Rhinos name, how people ridiculed it and said it was the worse name and would nor last. The Club has created a fantastic recognised brand and one of the few RL brands well known nationally. see no benefit of every going backward just to pacify a few vocal traditionalists.

i like those older traditional Trinity strips. was watching an old episode of friends the other day The one where Ross tries Rugby (union) and the main guy running it is wearing what resembles a Wally Lewis era Blue trinity shirt.

early 90's kit revolution produced some class shirts and some absolute dross, one of the worst must be the Fev shirt circa 1994 the one with orange hi viz bits, looked like a railway track workers jacket.

The thing is about the Rhinos it's been very successful, do I particularly like the name, probably not but it has worked and is one of the Rl club brands that's well known, they would be mad to go back to just being Leeds RLFC now. Having a moniker that's tied the city/town is quite irrelevant if the brand is marketed well enough.


The logo itself is crap though but they have been very good at marketing it.

Unfortunately for Leeds, 'The Owls' 'The Dead Sheep' or 'The Loiners' aren't really marketable nicknames, in the way that 'Wolves' or 'The Wire' would be, so I suppose they had to turn elsewhere.

Quote ="christopher"I could go through a design critique but it'd be quite boring, I just think its not very well done and an opportunity missed when changing the name back to get some strong branding done, having said that it is by no means the worst in the league and I do appreciate that clubs do not have a huge amount of cash to spend on branding. Not sure what you mean by copyright, a Fleur de lis can't be copyrighted'" You are on the tricky ground there, I know a fair bit about branding and it actually ticks all the boxes. Don't get carried away mate your kit ideas are nice but you're not WPP plc! So all you can do is give a personal opinion. I find it classical and traditional, real tradition, not a faux animal motif. Toronto is no more overrun by Wolves than any other Leeds is by Rhinos. The Fleur-de-lis is the cities emblem has been for a very long time https://www.heraldry-wiki.com/heraldryw ... =Wakefield The colours of the badge are the club colours. The graphics are modern, plain and to the point, more importantly, they are visually concise and can be easily reproduced on almost any substrate, job done imo.

Quote ="christopher"I could go through a design critique but it'd be quite boring, I just think its not very well done and an opportunity missed when changing the name back to get some strong branding done, having said that it is by no means the worst in the league and I do appreciate that clubs do not have a huge amount of cash to spend on branding. Not sure what you mean by copyright, a Fleur de lis can't be copyrighted'" You are on the tricky ground there, I know a fair bit about branding and it actually ticks all the boxes. Don't get carried away mate your kit ideas are nice but you're not WPP plc! So all you can do is give a personal opinion. I find it classical and traditional, real tradition, not a faux animal motif. Toronto is no more overrun by Wolves than any other Leeds is by Rhinos. The Fleur-de-lis is the cities emblem has been for a very long time https://www.heraldry-wiki.com/heraldryw ... =Wakefield The colours of the badge are the club colours. The graphics are modern, plain and to the point, more importantly, they are visually concise and can be easily reproduced on almost any substrate, job done imo.

Quote ="Fishermanscap"You are on the tricky ground there, I know a fair bit about branding and it actually ticks all the boxes. Don't get carried away mate your kit ideas are nice but you're not WPP plc! So all you can do is give a personal opinion. I find it classical and traditional, real tradition, not a faux animal motif. Toronto is no more overrun by Wolves than any other Leeds is by Rhinos. The Fleur-de-lis is the cities emblem has been for a very long time https://www.heraldry-wiki.com/heraldryw ... =Wakefield The colours of the badge are the club colours. The graphics are modern, plain and to the point, more importantly, they are visually concise and can be easily reproduced on almost any substrate, job done imo.'" Not sure what you mean ‘tricky ground’ or getting carried away? Fwiw I own a Creative Design & Branding Agency. I have worked in the industry for 25 years and won industry awards for Branding. So yes it may be my personal opinion (design is subjective) but it’s also my professional opinion. I have not criticised or questioned the use of a Fleur De Lis, I am well aware of the connection, I have questioned the implementation. Glad you like Wakefields logo, and you’re perfectly entitled to. I think it’s a good idea badly implemented.

Quote ="Fishermanscap"You are on the tricky ground there, I know a fair bit about branding and it actually ticks all the boxes. Don't get carried away mate your kit ideas are nice but you're not WPP plc! So all you can do is give a personal opinion. I find it classical and traditional, real tradition, not a faux animal motif. Toronto is no more overrun by Wolves than any other Leeds is by Rhinos. The Fleur-de-lis is the cities emblem has been for a very long time https://www.heraldry-wiki.com/heraldryw ... =Wakefield The colours of the badge are the club colours. The graphics are modern, plain and to the point, more importantly, they are visually concise and can be easily reproduced on almost any substrate, job done imo.'" Not sure what you mean ‘tricky ground’ or getting carried away? Fwiw I own a Creative Design & Branding Agency. I have worked in the industry for 25 years and won industry awards for Branding. So yes it may be my personal opinion (design is subjective) but it’s also my professional opinion. I have not criticised or questioned the use of a Fleur De Lis, I am well aware of the connection, I have questioned the implementation. Glad you like Wakefields logo, and you’re perfectly entitled to. I think it’s a good idea badly implemented.

Kin ell, and he wonders why no one believes him when he says he not vastman.

I had the Trinity 'airmail' shirt. Think it was the 93/94 shirt. It made a much better replica shirt, for casual wear, than a playing shirt.

The capital W with the fleur-de-lis is also my favourite Trinity badge.

Stupid comment but we've grown to expect it.

So I disagree with someone and I'm Vastman. Still don't worry most of us think you are Jean and his many aliases, so suck on that.

That's the point I'm making and that's where I think you're wrong.

Before I start well done for arguing your point sensibly unlike the pathetic so-called moderator.



I'm not directly involved in branding but do have a lot of interaction with it. The reason I mentioned WPP was that I once went to a seminar hosted by them. In a Q&A someone made a point like yours and the top man shot him to pieces. He said 'Design is subjective and no one is right except the end-user (customer). You can throw every so-called rule of design out of the widow because if they like it then it is right, end of'. He said 'the job of a good agency is not to be artistically brilliant or clever or win awards, it's primary role is to save the client from itself and give the customer what it wants'.

I too may have made tweaks to the Trinity badge. However, I have no idea as to what you mean by the implementation which as far as I can tell was spot on.

This is most demonstrated by the fact that Trinity merchandise sale has increased three-fold in four years. Not all due to the name/badge change but its a massive part.

The vast majority of fans love it, not all but you can't please all, they recognise it as Trinity in a way no other name including Wildcats could. Ask Michael Carter, he resisted it at first but fan pressure prevailed and he will tell you it's the best decision he's yet made. I pure cash terms it an extra top player per season,

How on earth can you argue against its implication? As a Trin fan since 2004 I can tell you it's probably the clubs greatest success to date, tragic I know but all the same, it's the truth. You may not like the look but that's purely your opinion and not wanting to be rude it means zilch. Mine means a lot because I'm the sap who buys the stuff and like a huge number of Trinity fans I'm willing to buy far more of it because I like the badge and I love the name. HTH.

From a design perspective, the only thing I'd like to see improved on the new Trinity badge is the typography. It's just a bit too tightly tracked in places. The typeface could also be a bit more minimalistic. Apart from that, I like it.

Well if you've been to a seminar, who am I to argue with that level of experience in designing brands eh! You came out with quit a pithy comment about not getting carried away with myself and being on tricky ground, I would suggest it’s maybe you who is thinking too much of your expertise in Branding when I have been directly involved in creation and implementing brands for 25years.

How on earth can I argue on its implementation? (you’re probably interpretating that incorrectly) look I’m a Designer I think the idea of going back to the Trinity name was a sound one I just think (as in in my opinion) the badge could have been better designed, your man from WPP may agree, why not bob along to another seminar and ask him?


Why are you getting your knickers in a twist over this? You come across as a little angry and seem to be arguing about something you don’t have much experience in.

As for your design agency insight, I am well aware that the proof is in the pudding so to speak and to be a good agency you have to be very commercially aware otherwise you won’t last very long. Awards do mean nothing in the grand scheme of things but I don’t see WPP handing theres back anytime soon.

I could critique the design of the badge and go into detail for you And have a design discussion but I simply haven’t got the inclination to discuss it with you as you come across rather rude to be honest, do you often get involved in arguing on here?

I started this thread as I had a bit of spare time and designing rugby kits was where i first started to fall in love with design and I have been fortunate to be able to make it my career, I didn’t start it to have a forum argument with someone who clearly thinks they know more than they do so I’ll bid you good day.

Yes the Typography could with tweaking, it just seems a bit off and not vey strong. There’s also a disconnect with the outline stroke of the Fleur de lis and the outline of the overall badge holding shape and the small shading part is a bit neither here nor there, I think theres a case for not having it or making it more prominent (Id prefer it flat).

I could be wrong but I haven’t seen any mono flat versions of the logo which any well implemented brand would have.


I’ll caveat all this by saying I’m not having a go at the club or the designer that did it, I appreciate clubs have not got huge budgets for branding and I obviously haven’t been involved in the process so I can’t pass judgment too much on design decisions that were made.


Right I’ve said my piece.

You didn’t just disagree with me you tried to be clever and as condescending (which ill fully admit in my reply I have done the same )

I don’t visit this forum much I take it you have ‘form’?

There's no point debating with him, he wont accept your opinion on trinity and will just shout you down, that's why I said what I said above cos he gave me the hairdryer treatment a few years back when u questioned the way they implemented the name change back to trinity.

We're all wrong, and that final.

It's all very well changing your name to try and leave that reputation behind, but if he's not willing to change the way he aggressively talks down to ppl, you dont need moderator powers to see it's still him.

Anyway, good work Christopher.

As someone who is not a graphic designer, just a spectator, I suggested I thought the Trinity redesign was great, simply because I like a combination of tradition and simplicity. I think that's what most sports fans in the UK want, having not led any focus groups, but having conducted extensive market research 'down the pub'. The American style nicknames and stylised animals are not part of the European tradition. It's no surprise that these badges are highly popular with their own clubs' fans:

Yes I’m a fan of those logos, the Trinity one is not as good due to the things mentioned previous, which was my point, the idea was good but its just not been executed quite right, all IMO of course.

Yes did understand what you mean with the names, I m not a huge fan myself but it cannot be denied it has worked at my club (Leeds)

Oh come on JEAN, everyone knows in 2018 you invented time travel for the sole purpose of journeying back to 2002 to create a login, become a moderator by using subliminal messaging to infiltrate Sadfish's subconcious, all so you could out vastman 18 years later....

All good examples of traditional done modern. The Trinity badge would definitely benefit from being stripped down and minimalised to the level of the Hull KR badge. Obviously, it's not as easy with Trinity having a 3 colour pallete. Maybe it's the third colour which makes the Trinity logo appear fussy?

How great is that Notts Forest badge?!

Great work Christopher, loved seeing your take on the club designs, I don’t understand why clubs manage to make such a mess of it each year.
What would you do with the current Leeds logo?

Notts COUNTY, NOTTINGHAM Forest sorry for the pedantry