You cannot really know that for sure without factoring in the final results and what the score was when the card was issued.

There are plenty of games were the cards don't make a difference to the final result.

That’s not really the point though. Yes, the team losing a player may have lost even with 13, or the team losing a player may overcome and win anyway. What’s undeniable in every single case though is it completely changes the dynamic and momentum of the game

For what it is worth I think Saints will make the top 6 but my point still stands that mathematically one win doesn’t guarantee Saints a playoff spot. If your predictions are correct then a Saints trip to Warrington would be very tasty. Also, I wouldn’t put it past Wigan or HKR to falter next week as this Friday’s fixture is akin to a GF game and it can be extremely challenging to perform the week after such a big game.

Murphy confirmed now on a 2 year deal

Well Well Well RobRiches- its almost like I do have sources after all....posted this before the media started to, check the date d**k head

Much improved backline for 25

1.Sailor 2.Feldt 3.Karapani 4.Percival 5.Murphy 6.Welsby 7.Lomax

Still think there is plenty of work to do on that pack but with Briers coming too should see an upturn in your attack.

Great signing if he's got over that bad injury, got to admit I've seen nothing of him since he went to Oz but he looked a terrific young player at Wakey

Karapani isn't cut and dried its just that it seems Briers is definitely bringing a young centre with him and fans are looking at who is off contract. Karapani is in and around the first team now and the fans seem to rate him.

There's also Robertson to add to that 1-7 at some point. He's played way more games this year than first envisaged and the lad has looked vulnerable at times and made a few errors. He needs taking out of the firing line for the rest of this season (seems like Welsby may be back in a couple of weeks against Cas) but with a good pre-season and hopefully a bit of size put on, he will get more games next season.

I agree with the pack btw, think we need another prop but would have to be English and non-quota

Decent back line for next year. No excuses for Wellens next year not to challenge for silverware

Murphys an exciting signing, genuine pace and great finisher

I agree the backline looks far more exciting on paper for 2025. Replaced Makinson like for like and then injected some pace with Sailor and Murphy over Dodd and Bennison/Blake effectively. Karapani (or whoever we sign) replaces an aging and unfit Hurrell.

Robertson is showing huge potential and will cover 1,6,7 along with Whitby in the halves too and we've got a couple of highly rated backs in Dagnall and Sambou.

Not sure I agree there is "plenty" to do in the pack. I think we are another solid prop short but that's about it.

Props: Lees, Walmsley, Paasi, Delaney, Stephens, Wingfield
Hooker: Clark, Mbye, Burns
2nd row: Sironen, Batchelor, Whitley
Loose: Knowles, Bell

That's without mentioning any of the younger lads coming through.

So a prop would definitely be nice but that aside I think the pack is fine and if we get a centre in as well, the squad is looking good.

Hopefully Briers is giving freedom to liven up and vary our attack and if so, we will be serious players again.

If Matautia is leaving then I think that is a massive loss. In effect the Saints pack will, in my opinion, be weaker. Also, he is an all round rugby player being able to operate at centre, second row and prop.

Lewis Murphy is the best signing of the lot. Not convinced with Sailor at all. Like a Wish version of Albert Kelly. Fully expect Robertson to have displaced him within 12 months as first choice

I haven't seen that. He showed a few glimpses against us on debut but has looked incredibly vulnerable ever since IMO and only Stephens has shown he may be up to it. I think the golden generation comment will make Rush look silly eventually. He is just playing for time. That i do agree with StephLebronRiches on.

Harry Robertson will play at the top end of Super League and/or the NRL for the next 10 years and will play for England in the next 2-3 years. Absolutely certain of that.

To suggest he doesn’t have huge potential is complete and utter biased nonsense I’m afraid. Yes he’s dropped a few kicks but he’s also had some great moments in attack and won MOM in our most recent game. If Saints fans were saying Farrimond hasn’t shown potential you’d be saying the same thing.

As for Rush’s comment, we’ve seen Stephens and Robertson break through this year, academy international George Whitby is about to and then there’s the likes of Dagnall, Sambou, Roberts, Cowen to come. Our academy side has also just finished top of the league for the 3rd consecutive year. I think it’s a decent generation to be fair.

I do agree that there are a few lads with great potential but killing at SL is far different than excelling at academy level. As always only time will tell if they have the tools to make it. I have seen many a player who has been outstanding at U18 level at Wigan and they have struggled to make it in the Championship. Rush has gambled, we will have to see if he holds all the aces, I really hope for the sake of our game that some of these lads do go onto to play for their country. If they do, they may end up getting poached by teams in the NRL, especially when two new franchises are introduced in 2028 unless something is done about the salary cap and club developed players.

Massively unfair on a kid who has literally only been FT training for 3 months.

He’s come into a side low on confidence and beset by injuries with a different backline every week. He’s made a few errors without question but has also shown glimpses of his undoubted talent. The golden point DG win against Salford was as a result of his kick return

Whereas Wigan have had the luxury of dipping Farrimond in and out of the side, Robertson has had to play a lot of games when in an ideal world he wouldn’t have done.

I’m willing to wage a decent sized charity bet with you that he will be one of the top players in SL within the next 3 years

I'd probably take a stab at saying the guy that says Robertson hasn't shown great potential hasn't been watching him. He's looked vulnerable under the high ball (but he's not really slated to be a fullback anyway) but he looks dangerous every time he's running with the ball, and seems to be able to create stuff out of nothing. I don't really think you could have watched him regularly this season and be of that opinion tbh

My god. The simpletons over at redvee are getting excited by a reserve Brisbane fullback who can only get a game due to injuries and when plays is terrible in defence. A 32 year old winger with no pace, to replace another 32 year old winger with no pace, and an ex wakefield winger who played about 6 games for them and became third choice winger for the roosters reserve team. Give me strength.

You mean as opposed to a simpleton that gets excited by posting utter crap on multiple different forums, of which exactly 0 people want to hear from them?

What has Rush gambled with?

Probably money

The issue we've had and one of the many mistakes Wellens has made is his lack of rotation pre all the injuries. He had opportunities to give the likes of Robertson 20 mins here and there against London and Hull earlier in the season. We were 1st or 2nd for a long while earlier in the season and had some of the kids been integrated into a winning team with lots of experience around them, they would've been in a better position

Instead he flogged the likes of Welsby, Sironen, Clark etc and surprise surprise they've all suffered injuries. This meant that Robertson made his debut away at Wigan and whilst he did well he's suffered since by playing in a team with lots of injuries and low on confidence

What Peet has done well is to dip his young lads in and out, like Douglas, Farrimond etc rather than a concerted run of games where a dip in form can be disastrous.

I don't think its a case of the kids not being good enough, its more of a case of how they have been blooded.

A lot is made of Wigan's Academy and production line and rightly so but lost amongst this is us making the Reserves Final again (finishing top) and the Academy finishing top for the 3rd successive year and winning 11 out of 12 games. We regularly have lads selected for England so the production line is there its just not been managed well

Compare and contrast how Woolf blooded Welsby and Dodd and its night and day. They played a variety of positions in a winning team full of confidence and experience

The problem with this, Stu, is Peet has had a winning team full of confidence to bring them into. Woolf the same. I'm not sure Wellens has. Whether that's his fault, injuries, a team not operating at previous levels or a mixture of all of these is subject to debate. Even when you were winning early doors, I don't think anyone thought you were playing well, certainly in attack, or even knew your best combinations. Bennison or Ritson, is Lomax the player he was, Hurrell's weight, Blake, has Dodd properly recovered from his injury and is he already on the plane anyway, Blake, is Wellens really the man for the job, Blake again etc. etc. Meanwhile Wigan were piling trophy in trophy with a fully firing team and a settled and successful coach.

The two situations aren't really comparable and, although Wellens has undoubtedly a part to play in that, I think it's equally a combination of factors that have contributed to the situation.

Just seen the highlights of Brisbane and Melbourne was that Sailor at fb for Brisbane or Adam Quinlan? Absolutely embarrassing defence

Brisbane were awful full stop, they should be ashamed.