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| Quote ="a.n Other"Just like you won't say that you don't know how much of the money CC clubs get was from Sky. Does it hurt you so much just say them three words - "I don't know". but then again you never do have any answers do you? Like Starbug once said....your a poormans Smokey TA.'"
Please show me where i said I know the exact amount each club gets. You are tilting at windmills (get someone with an education to explain to you what that means). Do you keep a book of starbugs quotes? Must be nice for you.  |
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Starbug, and others, can you not see that whatever you put on here this cowboy is going to come back with some clever a**e comment. The only way is not to respond and to completely disregard him. Let him think he actually does know everything and then he will get bored and move on to some other board. Every board as at least one of his kind who would rather lecture than debate.
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| Quote ="Alexs Dad"Oh there was no knee jerk, I've been reading the thread for a few days and was finding it all a tad ironic.
Smokey is Smokey, I rarely agree with him but he has his reasons, and in fairness to him a large amount of bragging rights. Huddersfield however. Well. Divert it as much as you like, you have certainly cast a repeated sneer at the lower clubs and particularly someone who probably does more for his club in a week than you will in a lifetime.
[Where is this sneering - other than in your head? I've said many clubs have had atrocious management / I think the solution to the woes of C clubs is unlikely to be roadshows / I do not have a problem with wealth and wealthy backers. There had been sneering. The dumb statement that 'sugar daddies' = Bad being a case in point. That the person making this statement is linked to a club that begged for some private money is...sweet.
In actual fact, casting my mind back to when Leigh's Colts could have given Huddersfiled a game, I was going to ask Smokey if he went to the JP Cup Semi at 'Arena 84' and if he remembered just how bad a state the 'Barracuders' were in back then. On a par with, oh I don't know, Bramley maybe.
[Nice history, do you have a point? I do not recall those invlved with the barracudas berating private investment and then chasing it..do you?
You may be too young to remember, which is fair enough, the dark days when you could have only dreamt of following Fev to Wembley, or seeing Fax win pots. Perhaps seeing Sheffields finest hour too, and how they were the big boys in the 'merger'. The fierce local derby being against Keighley or Batley. Or how a lack of facilities and finance at Dewsbury and Hunslet kept you in SL for numerous seasons despite a loss rate of something like 90%. I wont remind you how you got there in the first place either, old wounds and all that.
['Remind' me of what you like. The notion of 'old wound' is infantile playground stuff. So the Giants could have gone out of business...no s**t sherlock. So what is the point being made?
Enjoy your days in the sun, but don't look down at those you passed along the way with contempt, especially when you're so reliant upon one man in the first place.
[I enjoy myself, rain or shine, thanks. I do have contempt for inept managers and those hypocrits (taking a pop at people with money and then handing out the begging bowl). I think people who put money into clubs- and most know there will be no financial return - are to be commmended rather than sneered at.Apparently sneering at wealthy backers is okay with you? HTH
'" |
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| Quote ="Geekay"Starbug, and others, can you not see that whatever you put on here this cowboy is going to come back with some clever a**e comment. The only way is not to respond and to completely disregard him. Let him think he actually does know everything and then he will get bored and move on to some other board. Every board as at least one of his kind who would rather lecture than debate.'"
Geekay do feel free to respond like an ostrich.... or send me to Coventry. Probably the best way for you to cope with someone who disagrees with you. |
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| Quote ="bowes"They should have 1 semi-pro division of about 12-14 teams I think, but teams like Doncaster and Oldham do this every other season, I really lose all sympathy for the clubs (though still have some for the fans of course), so clearly should be either amateur or pay a small match fee.
They need to license the Championship and not let the likes of Doncaster, Oldham or Gateshead anywhere near til they're in better shape'"
I think there is merit in what you suggest. |
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| Quote ="Marsdengiant"Please show me where i said I know the exact amount each club gets. You are tilting at windmills (get someone with an education to explain to you what that means). Do you keep a book of starbugs quotes? Must be nice for you.
'"
Still cant say "i dont know" can you poormans Smokey. Are you a politician? |
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| Quote ="Marsdengiant" I think the solution to the woes of C clubs is unlikely to be roadshows'"
What in you opinion is the solution? |
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| Quote ="Marsdengiant"
Where is this sneering - other than in your head?
You can walk around in sackcloth and ashes as much as you like.
You dweam on about some sustainable fantasy RL game
Now, we have the Sky money and KD's money and it is great. I love it.
Poor things, how british sport must upset them. Good.
I comprehend the twee 'common ownership' models. They are a joke.
Even under Vaughn Widnes would play far better RL than Bramley and attract many more fans. Even a 'bad Vaughn' is better than some self indulgent set ups.
No sweetcheeks, I comprehend it. I just think your twee anti business and pro common ownership views are 'touching'
I love you common ownership kiddies. Often so far up themselves.
You crack on with running YOUR club. Secure in the fact that it will satisfy your personal ego needs and give you periodic opportunities to rage against 'evil sugar daddies' and 'nasty RFL'.
Did you see that club wetting itself at the start of the 2009. desperate for £ to 'survive'. It was a very touching story. i always put on the violin music when I read about them.
When will you get the Leigh crowds up to say 8k I will think you you have something meaningful to say.....but until them
So much wimpering. Like some lost little child needing Mummy or Daddy to save her.
Thankfully private enterprise bailed that lot out. A business with the where-with-all to make profits saved the floundering hobbyists with their very existence under threat (i'm getting tearful..honest)
Do take it up with someone who cares.
It is clear from your posts you have limited knowledge about RL.
First I keep laughing at your roadshows ideas. Second I do not think the sport needs reviving.
The saving of some lame duck clubs that the local community are not bothered about is your concern, not mine.
when you are committed to twee common ownership models then you can only see things one way.
'"
Is that enough? |
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| Quote ="Alexs Dad":18rs55rtIs that enough?'" :18rs55rt
You made my case. Well done.
You directly accused me of sneering at lower clubs.
How does thinking the concept of commonly owned businesses are moribund a sneer at lower league clubs.  How is telling a poster who dismissed the Giants recent youth development that he must have limited RL knowledge a sneer at lower clubs? (surely you cannot be so stupid to think that challenging a posters knowledge is having a go at lower league clubs?  ) How can pointing out that a guy who has a go at 'sugar daddies' and then begs for wealthy inputs is being hypocritical be a sneer at lower level clubs?
You read what I wrote but your blinkers mean you do not understand it. This does not surprise me.
I have little time for clubs that do not pay taxes, or do not pay players or that hide behind CVAs while creditors get screwed.
I think central funds £ should go to developing the grass roots not funding failing private enterprises.
I do not mind commonly owned enterprises. However when the people involved with them get sanctimonious about privately owned organisations I may challenge it. When common ownership activists start getting holier than thou about wealthy club backers while themselves desperately looking for private funds I will point it out. Hardly sneering at 'lower clubs'.
HTH.
so, try again. Find actual examples where I sneer at decent, hard working ,non moralising championship clubs. |
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| Quote ="a.n Other"Still cant say "i dont know" can you poormans Smokey. Are you a politician?'"
keep tilting...... |
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| Quote ="a.n Other"What in you opinion is the solution?'"
To continue to put central funds into grassroots RL - amateur clubs / schools colleges & Unis + womens RL + expanding the game for older players though modified rules.
I have already praised Kevin Nicholas and Batley on this thread. So it should be obvious that the way that the Bulldogs run themselves would be a very good starting point. HTH. |
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| Quote ="Marsdengiant"You made my case. Well done.
You directly accused me of sneering at lower clubs.
How does thinking the concept of commonly owned businesses are moribund a sneer at lower league clubs.
[several of the quotes you rely on refer directly to this point Or thinking Widnes under Vaughn are better than Bramley at RL a sneer at C clubs?
How is telling a poster who dismissed the Giants recent youth development that he must have limited RL knowledge a sneer at lower clubs? (surely you cannot be so stupid to think that challenging a posters knowledge is having a go at lower league clubs?
) How can pointing out that a guy who has a go at 'sugar daddies' and then begs for wealthy inputs is being hypocritical be a sneer at lower level clubs?
You read what I wrote but your blinkers mean you do not understand it. This does not surprise me.
I have little time for clubs that do not pay taxes, or do not pay players or that hide behind CVAs while creditors get screwed.
I think central funds £ should go to developing the grass roots not funding failing private enterprises.
I do not mind commonly owned enterprises. However when the people involved with them get sanctimonious about privately owned organisations I may challenge it. When common ownership activists start getting holier than thou about wealthy club backers while themselves desperately looking for private funds I will point it out. Hardly sneering at 'lower clubs'.
HTH.
so, try again. Find actual examples where I sneer at decent, hard working ,non moralising championship clubs.'"
Why do i think of this bloke everytime i read your posts
[url=http://img215.imageshack.us/i/comicbookguy.jpg/  [/url[url=http://g.imageshack.us/img215/comicbookguy.jpg/1/  [/url |
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| Quote ="Marsdengiant"To continue to put central funds into grassroots RL - amateur clubs / schools colleges & Unis + womens RL + expanding the game for older players though modified rules.
I have already praised Kevin Nicholas and Batley on this thread. So it should be obvious that the way that the Bulldogs run themselves would be a very good starting point. HTH.'"
I what way would that help CC and CC1 clubs? |
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| Quote ="Marsdengiant"
You read what I wrote but your blinkers mean you do not understand it. This does not surprise me.
'"
Oh I understand it perfectly well, you don't need to doubt that, and a great deal of it makes sense in the correct circumstance.
It's often sneering tone in which it is delivered, as shown repeatedly in my previous post. There is no need for it. No respect shown to fellow RL fans.
If you can't see any that then I pity both your ignorance and immaturity.
I'll let you have the final word. |
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| Quote ="Alexs Dad"Oh I understand it perfectly well, you don't need to doubt that, and a great deal of it makes sense in the correct circumstance.
[I asked for examples of sneering at 'lower clubs'. You actually produce none. You produce a list of things I have written but cannot substantiate your claim. but you stick with your fictions
It's often sneering tone in which it is delivered, as shown repeatedly in my previous post. There is no need for it. No respect shown to fellow RL fans.
[so now you shift your point from sneering at 'lower clubs' to 'fellow RL fans' do try and make your mind up. Just because someone likes RL does not mean you have to respect them. Of two posters on here I have disagreed with most one has made ignorant comments about development at the Giants and suggested that the club going from 3k to 8k gates was 'poor' - I do not respect such comments. He has also made insulting personal comments. i do not mind about these. It is funny that you do not chastise that poster for his insults..isn't it? The other poster calls 'sugar daddies' BAD while his club was saved by private financial support - I do not respect those'double standards'. HTH
If you can't see any that then I pity both your ignorance and immaturity.
[Given your inability to substantiate the claims you make and your many confusions I am not to bothered about what you feel about me or anything else. But if you need to feel pity..go for it.
I'll let you have the final word.
[will you? Fair do's
'" |
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| Quote ="a.n Other"I what way would that help CC and CC1 clubs?'"
My interest is the game in general not just C clubs. however greater particpation in RL and greater awareness of the game may lead to people going to C games - as long as they offer a good quality product / service at an acceptable price.
many C -clubs would benefit from the way Batley do things. that is where I would astart with many C clubs. (Good quaity management / decision making) |
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| Quote ="Marsdengiant"My interest is the game in general not just C clubs. however greater particpation in RL and greater awareness of the game may lead to people going to C games - as long as they offer a good quality product / service at an acceptable price.
many C -clubs would benefit from the way Batley do things. that is where I would astart with many C clubs. (Good quaity management / decision making)'"
There are more people playing rugby in London now than ever before and the Skolars are getting next to no fans into their games. How would you explain that? Even the SL side is struggling to get people to watch the game. |
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| Quote ="Starbug"I dont think you are grasping the concept
Which people do you want ' marking and how ?
this was the post'"
no it wasnt, how have you confused yourself here?
this was the post, its just a bit above yours
Quote ="Starbug"Why , how many people do Quins have in their marketing dept ? , or Celtic
In fact having a think about it today as the Skolars would find it difficult to ' partner up ' you could have them arrange things with Quins and Celtic
It all comes down to money , the non SL clubs dont have any so instead of having maybe one person working on their own not really getting anywhere , you have a team working full time on marketing but ' blitzing ' one club in any given week
The people the clubs supply learn more about marketing as a result so if that club then does get into SL you have an experienced person to head up any marketing that club then does
Like ' training ''"
the people learning would be the [iThe people the clubs supply learn more about marketing as a result so if that club then does get into SL you have an experienced person to head up any marketing that club then does [/i |
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| Quote ="Starbug"To quote you , " There is no either or here "
Why does it have to be one or the other ?
Are the SL clubs that fragile they cannot survive unless they chase support in little towns like Batley,Swinton or Keighley ?'"
SL clubs should be chasing support everywhere, big towns, small towns, cities, where-ever
It doesnt 'need' to be an either/or situation, but in practical terms it likely is,
Quote What is ' best for the game ' is all clubs progressing in whatever competition they are in ans at whatever level they are at'"
yes, vague platitudes, pretty much meaningless arent they! |
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| Quote ="Starbug"Fair enough , I can live with that , or are you saying without corporate and sponsorship support no club can ever be a success ? '" at super league level no they cant, clubs need to have strong sponsorship and corporate structures to survive in SL level
Quote I have been arguing that clubs like Leigh will never get the level of support for ages and the RFL are wasting time and money trying to get clubs chasing it and I've had the likes of you and others saying the RFL know what they are doing '"
If you are giving up on having these, you are giving up on SL
and thats fine, not all clubs can be Elite, but it changes the focus of what the RFL need to try to do with clubs in that position
the focus is either getting clubs in that league into a position where they can become SL clubs, or we can focus on strengthening the position of Semi-Pro clubs and improving the contribution they can make, in their position, to the game as a whole
Yes clubs should be and are and want to strengthen their position no matter where that is
Quote As for ' potential ' , well nobody can decide what any clubs ' potential ' is , certainley not you '"
you seem to be contradicting your self as usual,
on one hand you say Leigh dont have the potential to bring in this money and the RFL are wasting their time trying to encourage clubs to do so and on the other saying no-one knows if they do or not
Quote All clubs should be encouraged and more importantly ' helped ' to improve themselves especially financially given recent events and any money spent needs to be spent in the most productive way , all clubs desperatley need more fans through the gates , especially the ones who we agree will not and probably never will be able to bring in high levels of investment and sponsorship '"
Then fine, we can change the focus of the championship and the contribution it can make to RL |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"no it wasnt, how have you confused yourself here?
this was the post, its just a bit above yours
the people learning would be the [iThe people the clubs supply learn more about marketing as a result so if that club then does get into SL you have an experienced person to head up any marketing that club then does [/i'"
Righto , you did confuse me a little there
As for ' Marking ' them , well I suppose that could come later , initially the proof of success would be an increase in supporters at the clubs |
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| Quote at super league level no they cant, clubs need to have strong sponsorship and corporate structures to survive in SL level'"
Quite possibly , but at the moment we are not discussing SL clubs , and of the clubs we are discussing only 1/2 are likely to have the opportunity to become SL clubs in the next 8 years
Quote If you are giving up on having these, you are giving up on SL'"
Not really , but quite simply I am suggesting the best use of a limited amount of money is to chase supporters rather than ' sugar daddy ' type investment
Quote and thats fine, not all clubs can be Elite, but it changes the focus of what the RFL need to try to do with clubs in that position'"
Which is ?
Quote the focus is either getting clubs in that league into a position where they can become SL clubs, or we can focus on strengthening the position of Semi-Pro clubs and improving the contribution they can make, in their position, to the game as a whole
Yes clubs should be and are and want to strengthen their position no matter where that is '"
There's that either or again , there is no either or in this ,
Quote you seem to be contradicting your self as usual,
on one hand you say Leigh dont have the potential to bring in this money and the RFL are wasting their time trying to encourage clubs to do so and on the other saying no-one knows if they do or not'"
No I'm not , clubs like Leigh are not in a position to bring that type of money in at the moment , so surely the Challenge is to get them to a position where they do become a club with that potential , If you have the clubs in the Championship averageing attendances half of the ave in SL [ say 5,000 then you will have investors becoming more interested in them , It's more a ' chicken /egg ' scenario than just cutting adrift
Quote Then fine, we can change the focus of the championship and the contribution it can make to RL'"
So what should that focus and contribution be ? |
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Can anyone refresh my memory as to how Hamilton stopped being the major shareholder the other year?
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) How can pointing out that a guy who has a go at 'sugar daddies' and then begs for wealthy inputs is being hypocritical be a sneer at lower level clubs?
