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| Quote ="exiledrhino"So aggressively calling a gay person a homophobic term in a heated exchange is not as bad as a person holding old fashioned religious beliefs believed by millions world wide?'"
In my opinion it depends what you do with those views.
If someone called me something derogatory, then apologised and made efforts to atone, I would view that more 'favourably' than someone who repeatedly spouted hate to hundreds of thousands of people against a particularly part of the community whatever reason you are hating them for.
I quite possibly deal with people on a daily basis who hold views on whatever that don't fit with my own view of the world, but unless they share those views with me, I am non the wiser.
To be absolutely clear, neither are acceptable in my view. |
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I think SL is tolerant enough to not worry too much about Folau's views.
Keegan Hirst/Gareth Thomas both received a good platform to share their life experience's and received overwhelmingly positive reactions (bar maybe a few twitter trolls).
For them to look to exclude someone in the name of tolerance just seems a bit more than ironic to me. It will also more isolate conservative religious people of which there are many in SL and the NRL because of south sea island representation, more than Folau could isolate gay people IMO. There has been a rift in Australian RU just because of this.
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| Quote ="exiledrhino"I think SL is tolerant enough to not worry too much about Folau's views.
Keegan Hirst/Gareth Thomas both received a good platform to share their life experience's and received overwhelmingly positive reactions (bar maybe a few twitter trolls).
For them to look to exclude someone in the name of tolerance just seems a bit more than ironic to me. It will also more isolate conservative religious people of which there are many in SL and the NRL because of south sea island representation, more than Folau could isolate gay people IMO. There has been a rift in Australian RU just because of this.'"
Is homophobia better than racism? Would someone who had aired racist intolerance be welcomed? Or is it ok because it’s ‘just homophobia’?
And let’s get this difference right between what is his ‘opinion’ and where that has become hate speech. |
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| Quote ="Marty Grrrrrrrrrr!"Did you sing that everytime Zak played for Leeds after his comments to James Child or does it only apply to other clubs?'"
No, however I did tell him to his face he'd been a pillock when I saw him. He agreed, I didn't feel a need to take it any further.
Zak is/was the very definition of a big daft lad. My opinion (which could be wrong) is that he didn't fully understand the offence he was causing and threw an unacceptable slur at someone with the intent of showing them that they'd made the wrong decision and he wanted them to know it. I see the actions of Folau differently, in my mind it's more serious and he clearly doesn't believe he's done anything wrong. |
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| Quote ="Seth"Is homophobia better than racism? Would someone who had aired racist intolerance be welcomed? Or is it ok because it’s ‘just homophobia’?
And let’s get this difference right between what is his ‘opinion’ and where that has become hate speech.'"
Seth, good point. Hate is hate and it's not good in any circumstance. It's also not limited to a certain phobia or people group, even though LGBT/people of colour have often been targets for hate.
I'd say there's no way of ranking one area of hate over another.
The difference here is that the views Folau espoused are more nuanced than the blanket term homophobia gives credit for. He's expressing views through a religious context, and has (as far as I know) not incited violence or aggression towards LGBT people.
He's from a conservative religious tongan culture, where the vast majority are likely to share his views. Do we have the right to demand that these people should share our more modern and secular view of the world?
Overall I think there is just a massive double standard of who we are/aren't allowed to be morally outraged at and who we aren't. Some players past actions are swept under the carpet (I seem to remember Ben Cockayne having a racist rant at a taxi driver), and no one seems to care.
Some years ago, Folau's comments would have probably been pretty damaging to LGBT people, but I don't think that's the world we live in anymore. |
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Quote ="exiledrhino"Seth, good point. Hate is hate and it's not good in any circumstance. It's also not limited to a certain phobia or people group, even though LGBT/people of colour have often been targets for hate.
I'd say there's no way of ranking one area of hate over another.
The difference here is that the views Folau espoused are more nuanced than the blanket term homophobia gives credit for. He's expressing views through a religious context, and has (as far as I know) not incited violence or aggression towards LGBT people.
He's from a conservative religious tongan culture, where the vast majority are likely to share his views. Do we have the right to demand that these people should share our more modern and secular view of the world?
Overall I think there is just a massive double standard of who we are/aren't allowed to be morally outraged at and who we aren't. Some players past actions are swept under the carpet (I seem to remember Ben Cockayne having a racist rant at a taxi driver), and no one seems to care.
Some years ago, Folau's comments would have probably been pretty damaging to LGBT people, but I don't think that's the world we live in anymore.'"
They are all good points, just on the last one though, All Black scrum half TJ Perenara said, and bearing in mind Folau said 'Hell awaits' gay people..
“I’d like to add my voice to the conversation currently taking place. As professional rugby players, whether we like it or not, we are role models for a lot of young people. Notably, young Maori and Pasifika people,” wrote the Hurricanes scrumhalf on Twiter. “You don’t need to look far to know that young Maori/PI are overrepresented in youth suicide statistics and, as I understand it, even more so when you look to those who are part of the Rainbow community. Comments that cause further harm cannot be tolerated.
“Let it go on record that I am 100 percent against the comments that were made by Israel. It was not ok to say that. It’s not an attitude I want to see in the game I love. There is no justification for such harmful comments.
“To anyone, young Maori/Pasifika people especially, who may be struggling with their identity – please know that it is ok to be you. You are perfect as you are. Do not let these comments keep you from being yourself. Polynesia has been sexually diverse since forever.”
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/blacks-t ... -backfire/ |
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Quote ="exiledrhino"Seth, good point. Hate is hate and it's not good in any circumstance. It's also not limited to a certain phobia or people group, even though LGBT/people of colour have often been targets for hate.
I'd say there's no way of ranking one area of hate over another.
The difference here is that the views Folau espoused are more nuanced than the blanket term homophobia gives credit for. He's expressing views through a religious context, and has (as far as I know) not incited violence or aggression towards LGBT people.
He's from a conservative religious tongan culture, where the vast majority are likely to share his views. Do we have the right to demand that these people should share our more modern and secular view of the world?
Overall I think there is just a massive double standard of who we are/aren't allowed to be morally outraged at and who we aren't. Some players past actions are swept under the carpet (I seem to remember Ben Cockayne having a racist rant at a taxi driver), and no one seems to care.
Some years ago, Folau's comments would have probably been pretty damaging to LGBT people, but I don't think that's the world we live in anymore.'"
They are all good points, just on the last one though, All Black scrum half TJ Perenara said, and bearing in mind Folau said 'Hell awaits' gay people..
“I’d like to add my voice to the conversation currently taking place. As professional rugby players, whether we like it or not, we are role models for a lot of young people. Notably, young Maori and Pasifika people,” wrote the Hurricanes scrumhalf on Twiter. “You don’t need to look far to know that young Maori/PI are overrepresented in youth suicide statistics and, as I understand it, even more so when you look to those who are part of the Rainbow community. Comments that cause further harm cannot be tolerated.
“Let it go on record that I am 100 percent against the comments that were made by Israel. It was not ok to say that. It’s not an attitude I want to see in the game I love. There is no justification for such harmful comments.
“To anyone, young Maori/Pasifika people especially, who may be struggling with their identity – please know that it is ok to be you. You are perfect as you are. Do not let these comments keep you from being yourself. Polynesia has been sexually diverse since forever.”
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/blacks-t ... -backfire/ | |
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Thanks for sharing flipper. I have nothing to add to that, other than the above is the most needed response rather than a ban for life which only gives the issue more attention.
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Quote ="flipper"They are all good points, just on the last one though, All Black scrum half AJ Perenara said, and bearing in mind Folau said 'Hell awaits' gay people..
“I’d like to add my voice to the conversation currently taking place. As professional rugby players, whether we like it or not, we are role models for a lot of young people. Notably, young Maori and Pasifika people,” wrote the Hurricanes scrumhalf on Twiter. “You don’t need to look far to know that young Maori/PI are overrepresented in youth suicide statistics and, as I understand it, even more so when you look to those who are part of the Rainbow community. Comments that cause further harm cannot be tolerated.
“Let it go on record that I am 100 percent against the comments that were made by Israel. It was not ok to say that. It’s not an attitude I want to see in the game I love. There is no justification for such harmful comments.
“To anyone, young Maori/Pasifika people especially, who may be struggling with their identity – please know that it is ok to be you. You are perfect as you are. Do not let these comments keep you from being yourself. Polynesia has been sexually diverse since forever.”
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/blacks-t ... -backfire/'"
Good post Flipper.
Personally, I’ve never been convinced by the RL players are role models for all the reasons and behaviour listed in this thread but A J sounds like a very sensible lad. |
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Quote ="flipper"They are all good points, just on the last one though, All Black scrum half AJ Perenara said, and bearing in mind Folau said 'Hell awaits' gay people..
“I’d like to add my voice to the conversation currently taking place. As professional rugby players, whether we like it or not, we are role models for a lot of young people. Notably, young Maori and Pasifika people,” wrote the Hurricanes scrumhalf on Twiter. “You don’t need to look far to know that young Maori/PI are overrepresented in youth suicide statistics and, as I understand it, even more so when you look to those who are part of the Rainbow community. Comments that cause further harm cannot be tolerated.
“Let it go on record that I am 100 percent against the comments that were made by Israel. It was not ok to say that. It’s not an attitude I want to see in the game I love. There is no justification for such harmful comments.
“To anyone, young Maori/Pasifika people especially, who may be struggling with their identity – please know that it is ok to be you. You are perfect as you are. Do not let these comments keep you from being yourself. Polynesia has been sexually diverse since forever.”
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/blacks-t ... -backfire/'"
Good post Flipper.
Personally, I’ve never been convinced by the RL players are role models for all the reasons and behaviour listed in this thread but A J sounds like a very sensible lad. | |
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The thing that worries me about Folau's comments is their target audience. Some very vulnerable people are drawn to religion and the attitudes of some churches to their "sins" has pushed some over the edge and caused deep distress to many more.
Should Catalans have signed him? Much depends upon the player. If he stops promoting these views then it could be argued a second chance was justified. My suspicion is that God will tell him to speak out once again, in which case it'll be an unmitigated disaster for both the club and the game. In other words, a gamble where only Catalans benefit if it comes off but everyone suffers if it doesn't.
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Whats his odds for Man of Steel?
Let's say he scores 40 tries and runs riot (not at all unlikely - hes one of the best players of either code, in the world - i'd say in the Top 3) then he could be Man of Steel
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Lenaghan coming out and saying Wigan would have signed him if they could have fit him in speaks volumes and i suspect many SL clubs would have too; and as has been mentioned many times over these forums SL has made made it's bed where giving multiple chances to offenders is concerned.
Hopefully all we are talking about in the months to come is the Folau on the field because he is a superb player and in that regard adds much needed star quality to the competition. Lets see, if nothing else it's going to interesting.
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If he has learnt his lesson and now keeps his mouth shut i would have been happy for him to play centre for us with Newman on the wing for a year and he can cover FB and no doubt SO if required.
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| Quote ="Marty Grrrrrrrrrr!"Hoping Wigan do another class move and have a celebration of straight people too when we go over next season.
Wigan's moral compass seems to have changed at least. How about they parade victims of glass attacks at a game which they seemed to find acceptable a few years ago.
Thats before we mention Wigan signing of Zak and the behaviour of the charming Tomkins boys lol.
Yeah real classy Wigan.'"
Spot on sir.
We do get fed up with the rainbow warriors getting rammed down our throat constantly. |
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| Quote ="Giantscorpio"Spot on sir.
We do get fed up with the rainbow warriors getting rammed down our throat constantly.'"
Maybe you should subscribe to another paper if Gay Times doesn't float your boat  |
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Hull KR to sue catalan over fokau
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| Quote ="ALAW"Hull KR to sue catalan over fokau'"
[url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/51368373No, they aren't, Hudgell is reserving the right, nothing more[/url |
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| Quote ="IR80"[url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/51368373No, they aren't, Hudgell is reserving the right, nothing more[/url'"
Don’t make it out to be nothing though, making that statement publicly is massive. |
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| Quote ="TheDreadnought"Don’t make it out to be nothing though, making that statement publicly is massive.'"
Oh I am far from belittleing it, just clarifying that Neill Hudgell isn't taking any action, and huge credit to him for making a statement that the rest of SL are endorsing. |
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Would they have a ground with free speach? He hadn't been charged for anything
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That Hull KR threat is a joke.
Sue for what exactly? Catalan have broken no rules.
Time to get off that high horse. He seemed to have no issue with drink driver, vandal and a guy who urinated on someone as well as setting them on fire in Todd Carney.
Must not forget about Joel Tomkins abusing a women bar worker with Hull KR quick to sign him up.
Stop throwing stones from Glass houses!!!
SL clubs are in no position to complain about the Falou signing when they are quite happy to sign players with criminal records, drug cheats etc etc.
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| Quote ="puroresu_boy"That Hull KR threat is a joke.
Sue for what exactly? Catalan have broken no rules.
Time to get off that high horse. He seemed to have no issue with drink driver, vandal and a guy who urinated on someone as well as setting them on fire in Todd Carney.
Must not forget about Joel Tomkins abusing a women bar worker with Hull KR quick to sign him up.
Stop throwing stones from Glass houses!!!
SL clubs are in no position to complain about the Falou signing when they are quite happy to sign players with criminal records, drug cheats etc etc.'"
il n'est pas le bienvenu, surmontez-le |
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| Quote ="IR80"il n'est pas le bienvenu, surmontez-le'"
Shame wife beaters are just fine. |
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| Quote ="puroresu_boy"That Hull KR threat is a joke.
Sue for what exactly?.'"
It tells you in the article. |
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