That really was a poor side comparatively to the one we are cheering on in this competition. Only the starting props look like they are as strong as the current team, although the way that Hill and G. Burgess are playing alongside the more established S. Burgess and Graham I am not sure even the Morley would get in (I would have Peacock in an instant and move S. Burgess to the back row)

The backline in particular lacks both skill and pace while the half backs were/are good players but not international quality half backs

Of the current England team I would swap in Peacock and Ellis and possibly Senior into the 17 today

The most interesting part is that England really did have a big chance to win both games against the Kiwis in 2008 and actually played below the level they were capable of (probably two of the most frustrating games I have watched)

Same old story!

Do you believe this? France have been due a good performance for about 10 years and still haven't pulled one off. They've won 1 game this tournament and that was against a v. poor PNG side by 1 point and only because PNG missed an un-missable penalty at the death!!!

They couldn't even get close to an average Samoa side at home in front of 11k French fans!!

Merde!

17 people have been on the waccy baccy thinking england can win.

we have as much chance of beating NZ as France have of beating England!

True, I can't remember us ever beating NZ on home soil.

This is different. None of those recent tournaments has the prestige of a world cup. Not only that, but a world cup NZ are defending. Can you see them failing to make the final, in their defence, when there is only 1 other decent team? They're going to be at old trafford to defend the crown.

I feel comparing this circumstance, the here and now, to the semi wins in 2009 and 2011 (don't even mention 2007....LOL!) to this tournament, this kiwi team, it's just not the same.

England will try damned hard. They'll be good in attack and defence. BUt they ain't gonna have that extra 1%. NZ will have that extra class. That crucial, try scoring offload that goes to hand instead of turf......that last ditch effort in defence to prevent a try where england fall off the tackle (see slater and charnley 40/20 opening ceremony for an example of that extra 1%).

It's going to be a tremendous final. Anyone with a ticket is in for a treat, and not only that, a game of nearly state of origin quality will be on free to air TV, that's a damned good thing.

Nearly State of Origin quality. What is that all about? I think you are too wound up in the hype. New Zealand may beat a full strength Aussie side so how will this be less intense than a game which has Mitchell Pearce, Nathan Merritt, James Maloney, Ashley Harrison, James McManus and Ryan Hoffman playing in it?

State of origin is the pinnacle of the game in terms of intensity and quality IMHO.

Hard to judge as New Zealand have been able to ease through the tournament so far and you learn most about where a team is at when they're pushed or challenged. At least England have already had the challenge of Australia and a tricky 40 minutes vs Fiji.

England may be best off try to come out blazing like the Aussie game and try get a few scores up and catch the Kiwis on their heels. It's not straight forward in sport to go from repeative run of the mill challenges to then switching it on for a tricky tight one so it really depends how New Zealand come out of the blocks or if they have some 'proper challenge cobwebs'.

That post is spot on. NZ have struggled the last couple of years against us on home turf, but like you said, we probably just wanted it that little bit more in the last four nations as we were on home turf with a home crowd backing us. This time New Zealand, Australia and England are all absolutely desperate for that trophy.

The thing that concerns me is our attack (Yes i know we have scored plenty of tries) but we blitzed Ireland and Fijj in 20 minute spells when the other team couldn't get the ball back. The first half against Fiji we didn't look like scoring when Fiji tackled like demons and kept their defensive shape. When we face NZ and we are in their 20, and NZ are keeping their shape and tackling like demons, are we capable of unlocking them. Chase was immense when the game opened up against Fiji, but when it's set for set, can he produce the magic then?

As the above post said, it's going to be the 1% efforts, sprinting for a kick, making sure we're set correctly at the scrum (we looked dodgy defending from the scrum every time against OZ)

It will be an epic battle, but i think NZ will have that extra quality when it counts. Will be cheering England all the way, lets hope they deliver!

no chance

Bring back GB surely?

A little unfair to use the team for a dead rubber group match as your source of comparison, better players didn't play that day as they were rested for the semis/using Newcastle as a drinking stop. No doubt there are improvements in some areas but the team that walked out in Brisbane was better too.

As for 2013, our best chance to make the final was a win in Cardiff. We need the 80 minute 17 man performance we rarely see and probably a little luck too. England haven't beaten NZ in a world cup in my experience of Rugby League, be nice to change that but I'm not overly confident.

Yes, course we will! C'mon England!

NZ backs are a real threat & probably as good as Australia BUT Englands forwards are a level above anything they have come up against since the ANSAC day test. Get on top of them & their backs will have to live of scraps.

But you forgot one thing: New Zealand forwards are a level above anything England have come up against ever before!

Plus Sonny Bill Williams desperately wants to win this World Cup. We all know that SBW has the X-factor that can smash England's defences at a critical moment.

Finally I haven't even mentioned the massive superiority of the NZ halves!

So let's stop dreaming. It's Last Stop Wembley for England. Enjoy the game, enjoy the atmosphere, and enjoy the spectacle. Then get yourself ready for a blockbuster Final between New Zealand and Australia at Old Trafford.

Obviously we need to overcome the massive French challenge first!

Can we? Yes

Will we? I don't think so

NZ are looking really good to me. Ok, they havnt been challenged just yet but they look aggressive, fast and most importantly clinical. People keep talking about them not dealing with pressure... Time will tell. Those who big up our pack (an yes it's the best pack in ages) can't ignore the size of the Kiwi pack.

Australia are just Australia. Not their best team for some time but they are still Australia and have players who are around 4th choice that could still beat anyone.

Can we? Yes

Will we? I don't think so

NZ are looking really good to me. Ok, they havnt been challenged just yet but they look aggressive, fast and most importantly clinical. People keep talking about them not dealing with pressure... Time will tell. Those who big up our pack (an yes it's the best pack in ages) can't ignore the size of the Kiwi pack.

Australia are just Australia. Not their best team for some time but they are still Australia and have players who are around 4th choice that could still beat anyone.

After watching the Kiwis and Kangaroos in the last 24 hours, I'd have to say that England will be bowing out at Wembley next week. We have nothing even remotely similar in terms of offensive capability. We might not ship as many as USA and Scotland, because our defence will be better, but we'd need to be able to score 4 or 5 tries per match to be able to beat the Aussies and Kiwis, and that just isn't going to happen.

Agreed

Sbw is on fire. He just is that good.
I think it's NZs year this year.

England will have to put all their best patches of the previous games in one game and more to make it to the final.

It's not a foregone conclusion because England have got a very good team

No.

New Zealand v Australia final.

New zealand will beat us quite comfortably I think.

[uSemi-Final[/u

New Zealand 38, England 18

NZ: Tuivasa-Sheck 2, Vatuvei 2, Williams, Mannering, Luke tries; Johnson 5 goals

England: Hall, G. Burgess, S. Burgess tries, Sinfield 3 goals.


Crowd; 62,692


[uFinal[/u


New Zealand 32, Australia 24

NZ: Tuivasa- Sheck 2, Vatuvei, Pritchard, Williams, Johnson, tries; Johnson 4 goals

Australia: Hayne, Inglis, Thurston, Slater tries, Thurston 4 goals.


Crowd: 71,428

Prediction for England France?