A centre as well.
The last proper centre (by that I mean played in the English competition first) that came out here I think was Gary Connolly(brillant player as well).
I really think Zak Hardraker is up to it, when I went over for the WCC he contained Lyon pretty easily,now give him a show against Jennings, Hodges etc on a weekly basis and his game would grow to another level.
Sam Tomkins has to come over here, put it this way if Slater wasn't around he would be the top fullback in the game today easy.
Josh Charnley could be the next big thing - love watching him play.

The forwards aren't the problem statistically speaking in the last three major comps the English forwards outplayed Australia's. It's the backs.
That and playing guy's like Sinfeld out of position(yes in club rugby league you can get away with playing him at 6 but not against the best players in the world)

It might effect the quality of the SL for a bit but the positives will outweigh the positives (for the National side).

Why do I have an interest in making an English side strong - hate seeing the old enemy suffer and want to see a good English/GB side. My father and Grand Father use to regale me with tales of how good the GB team use to be prior to the 80's

Or the overseas players off and let them play in sl?

The trouble is the RFL increased the number of teams at the same time they decreased the available player pool.

The overseas quota, IMO, is what is hurting SL. I know that isn't a popular opinion round these parts, but I think the overall quality of the league has diminished since the reduction of overseas players.

Yes, there have been some aussie/kiwi journeymen who've played in SL over the years, however there's also been some star players who've improved and enhanced the competition. Vainikolo, Lyon etc have all added to SL as a spectacle.

I know there are some on here who feel that banning ALL overseas players will some how magically make England world beaters in RL. This is nonsense. All the current quota rules do is force clubs to make room for players of a lower standard just because they're English, AND because the clubs HAVE to have a certain number of them, English players come at a premium regarding their wage, something which hamstrings clubs in a sport like RL were we have a salary cap.

Players like Sam Tomkins, Sam Burgess and their like would break into the first team regardless of how many overseas players were allowed to play simply because their class would show through. As for some of the more questionable English players in SL, without the quotas perhaps these players would have been confined to Championship level as they would not have the ability to break into a SL side.

The best English players will always break through if they are good enough.

Overseas players are not the problem and people use it as some excuse. Picking players just cause they are English when they are not good enough does not help anybody.

The problems begin in junior RL. At a peak time to coach skills into kids, junior coaches obsessed with winning at all costs get the big kids to run through everyone and the little nippy kids to run around everyone, rather than teach them to pass their way through. I've seen it time and time again watching junior RL, and it poses a significant problem, as junior players are less likely to pick up essential ball skills once they hit academy age.

This thread only serves to confirm that there are so many factors involved, it will take a very long time for the gap to be bridged.

Hanley's on channel 9 now, he can talk.

It will never happen but i would love to see an England under 20 team play in the Toyota Cup like the New Zealand Warriors, they could be based in Sydney for the whole season. That would be a great environment for those youngsters to progress in.

New Zealand Warriors are a NRL club side, England aren't.

What makes people think English RL should be able to compete with Australia? Let's look at a few facts:

Money
Nrl income $150million a year (and about to go up to $250mill)
Rfl income $20mill

Nrl avg club income $15mil
SL avg club income $5mill

Jnrs
Australia 50'000 (+nz)
Uk 10,000

Australia Jnr funding $tens of millions
Uk jnr funding $tens of thousands

Australia player size boosted by significant number of islander heritage players
Uk player size ltd in a nation where the avg male is 5 10" and under 85kg

Nrl 90% of players eligible to represent Australia
SL 65% of players eligible to represent England

Seriously why do you think England could or should be better?

Isn't it obvious? Just you wait until the benefits of having super league on the side of 15 delivery wagons comes through the system. The money and players will be flooding in to the game. It's worth millions in advertising, that is. Didn't you know?

100% spot on and the debate can end there! The number of juniors playing the game being the most important stat, unfortunately our kids our ruled by the 'bright lights' of wendyball.

Hanley had an interview?

I was too busy looking at Mitchell Pearce' new girlfriend!

he was saying the usaul thing about only 4 teams are good enough to win things in england, but he was also saying players like tomkins should give the nrl a go to improve their game

Woooooosh!

I think your spot on. Think this is particulary evident why we have no centres, the ones who get noticed are the big strong ones at U16's who run through people. Not the ones who pt their wingers in a gap.

The likes of Deacon, Sinfield etc probably wouldn't get scouted now. They won't the strongest, fatsest in the world, but they organsied and were superb passers and kickers.

That was over forty years ago though. Do we really need to mention all the changes that have taken place within the game since them to highlight that it's not the same game as it was then? Not least we only shifted from unlimited tackles about a decade before we started losing regularly.

The reality is Hanley is right and we are a long way behind the NRL and the reasons are quite obvious.

1. Rugby League in NSW and Queensland is thier national sport.

2. At Junior level most of our kids are interested in Wendyball rather than RL and so not enough kids iniitally get to play play RL thereby reducing the amount of talent available from the very beginning.

3. Investment and money in junior rugby is nothing like it is down under and simply the bigger volume of kids playing makes it more of chance for clubs to identify young players with quality and good skills which they can then hone and develop.

4. From a coaching perspective not enough emphasis is placed on passing ability in the UK. Lets be honest even some of our professional players at times don't pass the ball particularly well and many playing skills are undeveloped.

5. Far too many average overseas players in SL not giving UK players a chance.

6. Economic power. The game is awash with money in Australia whilst we struggle to find a decent sponsorship and only end up with a few players pictures stuck on the back of a Stobart Wagon.

7. Culture. The Aussie culture is more about playing sport, our culture is about watching it.

8. The weather is another major factor where its aids better player development and opportunites to train and improve fitness.

It might be worth pointing out that Deacon was a try scoring machine when he was younger.

People hark back to the 90's as when we where nearly good enough. That was mainly down to RU imports. Maybe the answer lies in the RFL signing up the 10 best Union backs from the home nations like we did in the 90's? Davies, Tait, Gibbs, Devereaux, Offiah to name a few.

Other reality is the funding into the game in Australia since that time has gone up massively whilst in the UK it hasn't.

Hanley should count himself lucky he was playing at a time when everything was in GB's favour and he could at least lose by just a few!

It's very simple...

It's down to each countries social make-up.

Sport and NRL in particular is ingrained into the National psyche. It has vast amounts of money thrown at it, huge exposure, along with solid development from grass roots level. Facilities, even for amateur Clubs are of a high standard and kids actually want to grow-up being RL stars. Ability is nurtured from a young age.

Compare it with our set-up over here...

RL is way down the pecking-order, it has problems breaking out of it's Regional base, tiny amounts of money invested in comparison. A stuttered grass roots system, poor facilities in a lot of areas. Smaller player pool to develop from, and our RL is run by sub-standard individuals.

On the face of it, we are doing well to even compete.

All the nonsense of dropping to 10 team leagues etc will do nothing. RL needs sound investment, better exposure, and quality development.

This.

For me, we should forget the Aussies for the next decade and concentrate on getting the UK grassroots and amateur game working towards a significantly higher and more consistent standard of coaching and administration; with a national coaching curriculum, some proper oversight of the people delivering that coaching and a requirement on SL clubs to form meaningful partnerships with their local amateur clubs, we might just arrive at a point where youngsters are developed in such a way that they'll acquire the skills and athletic ability to make it as RL players.

JB and The Butcher have it nailed.

I would also love to see some Assistant coaches or some junior managers taking a year to two to go to Aus and learn how to do it. Not enough of our coaches have the nouse and ability that Aus coaches have. To be able to follow them around and learn their ways from experts down under would benefit the set up over here massively. A win at all costs attitude is great but its by using the wrong tactics and techniques. Its like watching Stoke play Barcelona at football at times when we play Australia.

Im 21 now and i don't expect to see England beat Australia in a competitive final for as long as ill watch RL.

We desperately need to improve RL at grassroots level, both in terms of skill levels and participation/enjoyment levels. At the moment we have the worst of all worlds where we don't get that many kids taking part and we don't coach the kids we do have well enough. The passing & handling skills in particular are very poor. Mainly due, in my opinion, to the "pass it to the big kid" tactic and the emphasis on winning at too many amateur clubs.
I'd like to see much stricter enforcement and punishment of clubs and coaches (for Christs sake there was an u10's game abandoned for fighting a few weeks ago) by the leagues and the RFL.

I'd like to see a league schedule where clubs only play every other week and so can have extra training sessions that don't need to be focused on the upcoming game.

Obviously a much larger emphasis on passing both in training and in games. Maybe bring in a system we used to have in the schools league I played in as a kid, where tries involving a certain number of passes scored more points.

A change to smaller teams on much smaller pitches.

A mandatory touch competition for all clubs.

Whether all those things would work I don't know, but I think it would help to encourage greater passing & handling, less physical contact, and less of the big lad running through or around the defence. So hopefully would improve both skill levels and enable the game to be enjoyed by more kids than it currently is.

..even to France at home.

I don't really buy into this beating the Aussies and the world will be our Oyster scenario so many people push.

The Union team beat them reguarly, have won their world cup recently, and they still don't get bigger crowds than us in their club game

No one thinks outside of RL, Australia! The best Rugby League playing nation in the world, if the English RL can beat them, I'll go watch them. They think, Home and away, and Bondi each and the Opera house.

We need to get a proper long term plan together, and stop trying to beat the Aussies every year, that plan must however include a way of getting English players into the NRL more.

SL needs to make itself the best all round competition it can be, week in week out and we need to simply keep a consistant international game year in year out, following the RU setup and trying to find a "Home" for RL where year in year out international are played so people get used to the format and location of international games.

And a stable club game in the same manner. Chopping and changing is confusing for the already watchung never mind new followers.