I think the Quins should keep going until there is a viable London replacement coming through the ranks. All are dependent on Quins existing, but in the next 10-15 years it's possible that either the Skolars or the South London Storm could be the genuine RL article within the capital.

i live in barnet north london
it takes me 2hours to get to the stoop by car in west london

Working for Transport for london i have to say that west london is the worst part by far for traffic congestion and being so close to Heathrow doesn't help either.

part of the reason i think the crowds are low is it just doesn't seem to connect with Londoners and gets little or no exposure

Greater London is about 40 miles N/S
and 50 miles E/W
think how many pro teams in the north west there are in the same radius?

It has no identity, no ground and it's trading off a union name which in itself is detrimental.
Any one that might have been slightly interested in RL but supports say Saracens or London Irish isn't going to support what they now see as a rival team. When they were the broncos they had their own identity.

Fair points (remember the Broncos getting fairly good crowds in the mid-90's in SL), but why did they change to Quins then if they already had a good formula?

Because it wasn't a good formula

That is why it failed

The ' Quins ' formula was going to work

But it isn't

So what next ?

I was brought up on Union and I find the absence of scrums and line-outs a glorious relief. Total waste of time as a spectator.

I can't understand the frustrating lack of traction. I think the Quins brand is a good idea, as they are the runaway success in Union in London. I don't think the name is going to put off fans of other clubs if the Quins fans themselves aren't much interested. I have brought the parents of some of the kids I coach in mini-Union, many of whom are regular Quins Union fans, to the RL. They all claim to enjoy it, both the game and the livelier atmosphere despite the much smaller crowd, but they don't go back.

Not only do I feel it is a much more entertaining spectacle than Union, but I find the lighter spirits in the crowd a great relief after the bile and histrionics of football. I think there is a great deal of disaffection among football fans at the direction and expense of their game which could also be tapped (or is it just QPR?!) and newbie football fans would certainly find RL more accessible than Union.

Don't despair (yet). If the connection with Union gives us nothing else (apart from a superb ground of course) it is the model of a recognised name suddenly exploding in popularity and support. As has been pointed out, the RL side is so skint that the marketing spend has been slashed and the results are with us. One last push, please?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen.

Personally I find there is an actual dislike of RL from Union people of my age group. Not just the game itself but in the same way we have Union-haters there are plenty of League haters. I met plenty traveling who just looked down their noses at RL.

I just think the days when people would see a massive difference between the two have gone. 20 years ago you couldn't help but notice a difference in standard. Now that has gone. Plus people are protective of their own games, they are often reluctant to admit something else is better.

If somebody managed to create a hybrid of the two and it was much better than RL or RU, do you honestly think it would stand much chance of converting people on here? They would be openly hostile to it.

Is there a case (not just in London) for suggesting that with SL games now costing £17-£20 upwards, we are pricing out the "speculative, potential new fan"? I've brought work colleagues (lower league football fans) to occasional games in the past and they've enjoyed it, but they now see current prices as more than they want to pay for something that they are not "in to" yet.

By jove he's got it! Nobody has ever thought of marketing before!

Marketing is a cop out word that fans use to kid themselves that that is the problem. The Bulls drop is down to marketing, National League clubs need to market better, NRL clubs are crap at marketing. Of course it has a place but its massively overrated in my opinion and the logistics of it are often forgotten. Its amazing how many clubs don't understand how to run clubs as well as many keyboard warriors on here do.

On a separate note I'm glad people have stopped replying to your insane ramblings as are noticed on the other thread.

the trouble with Quins now is that even the loyal ones are moaning (as seen on many RLFans threads) about the ticketing arrangements (being forced into one stand) and about the lack of marketing, you have to fear for what will happen if even just a few of these give up on their season tickets next season. They seem to be annoying their existing support, without attracting anyone new.

When I lived in London ( for 18 years through the 70s and 80s ) I went to watch all the previous manifestations of the London club regularly, despite being a Wire by birth. I now live in Northamptonshire, not far on paper from The Stoop, but it takes more-or-less the same time to get to the Stoop from here as it does to get to Warrington, so there's no reason for me to follow my 'second team' any more.

Quins may have to stay at The Stoop for another ten years while RL continues to grow slowly at grass roots. It's tough surviving on such low crowds, but let's not forget ( as one Giants fan alluded above ) that Hudds - the 'home town' of Rl struggled for years with poor attendances, and Salford, another heartland club, still do.

I don't think ease of access should be underestimated. The Giants have managed to increase their crowds but it is easy to get to their ground.

i fear for the quins fans TBH.
i cant see what more can be done in london to attract crowds, there is teh potential there to get massive crowds due to the many antipodeans in london, but as someone has already pointed out the amateur game is thriving down south so why not target these people? maybe try enticing them with cheap tickets?
im not sure what marketing if any goes on around london for quins rl but how many people are aware of a rugby league club in the capital?

and to be fair playing a game on the eve of the biggest bank holiday of the year is just stupid IMO

i agree with most of your post martin.. but what was the crowd at wigan??? on the eve of a bank holiday..london need a marketing revamp to get the youngsters into the stoop for free.. teach em young etc

even something as simple as a BOGOF offer that way the guys who go and pay regular take a mate for free

I am glad that you bothered to reply to my insane ramblings. I guess you are not a person then. Certainly, your inability to write a grammatically correct English sentence, as evidenced above, shows that you are very ignorant person, as well as a hilariously silly person.

If you can't see what can be done in London then come to our boards and have a look at the posts of the last couple of weeks. Numerous suggestions have been made, especially by gutterfax, that are all sensible and logical but the problem remains that the club are currently sitting tight and doing NOTHING, in fact going backwards in the way in which they are promoting the club.

Playing the game on a Thursday made perfect sense but the club didn't capitalise on the opportunity. Thursday is the night out in London, I have no doubt that many of our supporters work in the office environment and could have dragged a few work collegues along for a beer up and decent night out. No offers were available for such a thing to occur because of our ridiculous ticketing system and stand layout. People were already in London and with no work the next day, it could have been a sure fire winner IMO, and in the opinion of many others (I did notice a few suits in attendance last night, but not many).

There were no transport problems getting to and from the match unless you travelled by car, but then thats never easy anyway. And from a playing perspective, we play Celtic on Monday which is a must win and a tough game, so an extra day of recovery suits us.

i would say that quins have some of the best facilities in the competition too which would surely sway people if they can manage to get them in first of all?

Its bad but salford arent doing a whole lot better. Its important to have a team in london, stick with quins for at least the next 5 years and see how things go.

I don't think i've ever known any newcomer to be disappointed with the match day experience until this season when they can't sit anywhere decent. See my previous post. This is down to the way the club is being run at the moment, not this usual "it'll never work" argument.

is your promotional chap not a rl fan???

Oh no attacking my grammar! even though it was clearly a mistake. I'll have to make sure I draft and re-read my posts in future. Shame I thought this was a forum, I didn't realise it was a rugby league journal.

I didn't reply to your insane ramblings, I replied to your other comment and noted how nobody had replied to your insane ramblings. It shows that people have stopped even discussing them with you. They just ignore you when you go off on one like that.

You might attack my grammar but it doesn't matter how much you actually concentrate on [ihow[/i you are writing because [iwhat[/i you are write is pure nonsense and everybody recognises it as such.

We have a promotional chap?

i was presuming your marketing department was working .. but run by the wrong sort of person

Obviously a big part of the problem now is there is a Pro Rugby League team playing in the sport's elite competition in London - they're called Harlequins and play at Twickenham!!! - now how many people in and around London would hear the Quins are playing at the Stoop and know it was a Rugby League game ?.

IMO they need to have London in their name somewhere - they need the people of London to feel like they have a club of their own to support rather than a gimmick part of a famous Rugbu Union club in the shadow of the Mecca of rah-rah.

What about familys etc that go away in the summer like your own fans will do ?